Critics of climate change often claim that warming has stopped since the late 1990s. While this is categorically false (the last decade was the warmest on record and 2005 and 2010 are generally considered tied for the warmest year), scientists do admit that warming hasn’t occurred over land as rapidly as predicted in the last ten years, especially given continually rising greenhouse gas emissions. But a recent study in Geophysical Research Letters has found this so-called missing heat: 700 meters below the surface of the ocean.

“Increasingly in the past decade, more of that heat has been dumped at levels below 700 meters, where most previous analyses stop. About 30 percent has gone below 700 meters in depth,” explains co-author Kevin Trenberth with the U.S. National Center for Atmospheric Research. “This is fairly new, it is not there throughout the record.”

Scientists have long known that around 90 percent of the heat from climate change ends up in the oceans and they suspected that this was where the ‘missing heat’ would be found. The study find that climate change has revved up worldwide, instead of stopping.

“This signals the beginning of the most sustained warming trend in this record of [ocean heat content],” the scientists write in the paper. “Indeed, recent warming rates of the waters below 700 meters appear to be unprecedented.”



  1. MikeN says:

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/03/26/trenberth-still-searching-for-missing-heat/

    This reanalysis is the use of a model to get the results they wanted.

    • bobbo, are we Men of Science, or Devo says:

      More shocking in the earlier years is they did the same thing when they included water vapour in the model. Seems the increased heat it created was exactly canceled by the reflection of radiation before it got absorbed. The model left out the most common green house gas but was still accurate.

      That made me become an agnostic. Before that, I was a believer simply because if you put co2 into a balloon it will heat up faster than one without it. Isolating only ONE variable among the 1000′s (if not trillions?) of variables, but still, the result was dramatic.

      Then I see all the glaciers melting but claims the ice is getting thicker in antarctica…so what you gonna believe?

      I cam up with the raising sea level as a “summing up” of all the variables. Hint—it keeps rising even as idiots dither away on some imagined conflict of evidence:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_sea_level_rise

      No one ever answers the chart. Neither volcanic action nor sea unicorns.

      You’ve had enough chances….I’ll put you down as “Devo.”

      • MikeN says:

        > if you put co2 into a balloon it will heat up faster than one without it.

        That’s not how global warming operates with regards to CO2. Hint: there are three types of heating.

        • bobbo, are we Men of Science, or Devo says:

          I said it isolates one out of trillions of variables. The fact, even if true which I doubt, that co2 has 3 ways it heats is irrelevant to the point I demonstrated.

          The fact that you can’t follow the simplest of possible points made………

          • klem says:

            “That made me become an agnostic. Before that, I was a believer..”

            Sorry Bobbo, but if you not a believer anymore you are not considered agnostic, there are no agnostics. You are smack dab in the middle of denier territory, pal.

            Welcome to the light.

      • MikeN says:

        Sea level has been rising for far longer than the 4 decades of global warming they are claiming, which is more like 2 decades. Somehow we are getting the same rise as before. Sea level rise of a few mm a year, amounts to after 100 years? Less than one meter, more like one foot. Your planet is doomed!

        • bobbo, are we Men of Science, or Devo says:

          Yes, the sea level rise warning is all about a meter or so in 100 years, then more thereafter “unless” an ice shelf somewhere falls off. Things that are too hard to model.

          The Atlantic thermocline has decreased about 30% in the past 30 years. It could “break” at any moment…. we just don’t know.

        • klem says:

          According to Wikipedia, “Since the Last Glacial Maximum about 20,000 years ago, sea level has risen by more than 120 m (averaging 6 mm/yr) as a result of melting of major ice sheets. A rapid rise took place between 15,000 and 6,000 years ago at an average rate of 10 mm/yr which accounted for 90 m of the rise; thus in the period since 20,000 years BP (excluding the rapid rise from 15–6 kyr BP) the average rate was 3 mm/yr.”

          So sea level rise has varied between 3mm and 10mm per year for the past 20 millennium. The average is 6mm/yr.

          So in what way is today’s observed sea level rise outside of normal variability?

          • MikeN says:

            Yup, that’s the problem with the sea level chart. If the sea level rise is the same now as 40 years ago, then the part that is due to CO2 is ZERO.

      • MikeN says:

        Oh, and somebody decided to apply a trick to that sea level chart. It is not what it was before. Look closely and you can see a downturn at the end. Before it was obvious, but now they have added a few more charts with a darker color to make it harder to see the downturn. Another trick to hide the decline.

        • bobbo, are we Men of Science, or Devo says:

          Yeah, I noticed a few weeks ago, now fully, that the trend lines seem to be in conflict for this last 10 year zig/zag. I’ve read we are cooling and we are warming.

          But I’m patients. No need to zig zag myself with each new herring dragged upon the shore.

          …….So–what is the best idea about what happens to the Billions of Tons of Co2 we pump into the atmosphere each year and the three ways it heats the atmosphere?

          You know–do you think most likely something bad, something good, or it magically does nothing?

          • MikeN says:

            Doesn’t heat the atmosphere 3 ways. That’s why your balloon example is irrelevant.

          • bobbo, are we Men of Science, or Devo says:

            That was a joke son….as agreeing with you most often is. Pretty obvious.

            Balloons with extra co2 heat up faster actually proving is a green house gas.

            How can PROOF be irrelevant????

          • klem says:

            I suppose a balloon is evidence if the balloon is clear. But if the balloon is opaque and black color, the expansion might be influenced by the dark color. Or if the balloon is opaque but white color, it might not expand much at all.

            Perhaps you might want to read about just how difficult it is to prove CO2 warms when exposed to IR light. its surprisingly difficult http://wattsupwiththat.com/climate-fail-files/gore-and-bill-nye-fail-at-doing-a-simple-co2-experiment/

          • MikeN says:

            It’s not evidence when the mechanism being exhibited is different than the mechanism that occurs in the atmosphere with CO2.

  2. bobbo, are we Men of Science, or Devo says:

    Your position on AGW is fun to reflect on. Why do you believe what you believe and how do you change your mind?

    NONE OF US “knows” diddly about climate and how it changes. So how do any of us form opinions and how do they change?

    Science has a 100% batting average. Whatever they get wrong, eventually they get right. -or- if you prefer=science is asymptotic to truth. What we might never know, or its all a dream, doesn’t change that.

    Along the same lines==nice review on how we think:

    http://newscientist.com/article/mg21729101.800-stupidity-what-makes-people-do-dumb-things.html?page=2

    I got the IQ test question WRONG in the short article. Made me laugh at myself when I found the right answer in the comments.

    I recommend the link. Might make you smile too.

    • MikeN says:

      >Science has a 100% batting average. Whatever they get wrong, eventually they get right.

      Only if people don’t fall for the line of ‘Trust us, we’re scientists.’ Nullius En Verba

      • bobbo, are we Men of Science, or Devo says:

        >Science has a 100% batting average. Whatever they get wrong, eventually they get right. //// Thanks for not quibbling. Shows you got potential. Wasted so far…. but still there??? Ha, ha. The import was how it was conditioned. But you saw that. Thanks nonetheless.

        Only if people don’t fall for the line of ‘Trust us, we’re scientists.’ Nullius En Verba /// No scientists has ever said that. If you don’t accept their best theory–come up with a better one. And no one has. Yea, I suppose “trusting” the oil companies makes more sense???

        ……so….. what does all the co2 pumped into the atmosphere eventually do in your alternate universe? Its irrelevant you say in a balloon. Same for Mother Earth?

        Silly Hoomans.

        • klem says:

          “Nullius En Verba /// No scientists has ever said that.”

          Um, the Royal Society did.

          According to Wikipedia “Nullius in verba (Latin for “on the word of no one” or “Take nobody’s word for it”) is the motto of the Royal Society. John Evelyn and other Royal Society fellows chose the motto soon after the founding of the Society.[1] The current Royal Society website explains the motto thus: It is an expression of the determination of Fellows to withstand the domination of authority and to verify all statements by an appeal to facts determined by experiment.”

          • MikeN says:

            The Royal Society was one of the key players in ClimateGate. They forced UEA’s Briffa to reveal the data behind a paper he published in one of their journals. Looking into this caused Steve McIntyre to discover some lousy math, including a single tree being responsible for most of the modern warming in this hockey stick. The kerfluffle around Yamal is what pushed the ClimateGate release, at least that’s what UEA’s Phil Jones suspected. The release itself suggests the reason is UEA’s failure to respond to Freedom of Information Act requests, while the third release suggests it was the Copenhagen meeting.

          • klem says:

            We don’t know who released the emails but I still think Climategate was an inside job. Someday in the future that person will step forward, and on that day I hope they receive the UKs highest civilian honor, the George Cross perhaps. I hope I live long enough to see it.

  3. Supreme Ultrahuman (I see the comment system is still designed for retards.) says:

    The real question on AGW is “Who cares?” I haven’t seen one “solution” from a believer that’s moral and ethical.

    If we could start from a foundation that promoting the “sustainable urban core” is a crime against humanity, we would could begin a discussion. Anything else is simply blowing CO2.

  4. Taxed Enough Already Dude says:

    Yea, that’s the ticket…its under the ocean!

    • klem says:

      The thing is, if all of the heat being generated by our evil western lifestyle is buried under the sea, that means the oceans will warm at an alarming rate and will expand even faster than previously thought. It’s the end of the world all over again! Ahhhhhh!!!

  5. MikeN says:

    The energy content of the ocean is about 5*10^24 Joules per degree C. So this chart is really measured in units of 10^22J/5*10^24 J/deg C or .002C. So they are claiming to have detected a change from 2C to 2.04C.

    • bobbo, are we Men of Science, or Devo says:

      If thats what they measured, what do you want them to say?

      One’s own ignorance is not an argument.

      I can’t even believe you posted that.====oh look, you did!

      My bad.

      • MikeN says:

        Measurement error mean anything to you? One’s own ignorance is not an argument.

      • MikeN says:

        In college:
        We measure the water in the tank at 185 degrees, and it is coming out of the shower at 184 degrees.

        Dorm Leader: We’ll try and get better insulation.

  6. MikeN says:

    What’s strange is that I don’t think this paper has anything to do with Kevin Trenberth’s famous ClimateGate missing heat e-mail. That was a reference to gaps in charts like this one:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Diagram_showing_the_Earth%27s_energy_budget,_which_includes_the_greenhouse_effect_%28NASA%29.png

    • bobbo, are we Men of Science, or Devo says:

      Fun chart to gaze at. I think I get the incoming values, but not the outgoing/retained (in red) values. That said, the missing heat shouldn’t show on those charts. Its a detail within the numbers shown? ie==given the numbers shown, the temp measurements taken in the air and on the ground and in the first 700 meters of the ocean don’t add up to the calculations/numbers shown on the chart==ie==there is heat missing.

      Some of the recent ocean sea level flattening was caused by a shift it the rain patterns–it falling on land and being absorbed there rather than going directly back into the ocean. That seems suspect to me…. but what do I know?

      In the end, and all along the way, the zig zags show a steady progression. Why idiots can’t accept that zig zags by definition show down periods is rather humorous. Like barking seals wearing party hats.

      Ha. ha.

  7. bobbo, are we Men of Science, or Devo says:

    Guyver causing any rational person to slap their forehead in disbelief says:
    4/3/2013 at 6:30 am

    I can guess, but what is your point?????

    You do understand what a point is …… right?

    Based on climate “science” of today, we now know that man-made CO2 caused global warming back during the Roman Times. Duh! /// Gosh McGuyver–If you argue all the climate change TODAY is caused by natural causes/variation…how come that isn’t your answer for back then when co2 wasn’t pumped into the air to any degree at all like today??? You got no attention span at all. Flip flopping back and forth from the talking points almost like you dropped the flash cards on the floor and got them all mixed up. …….. So, you point was you wanted to make no sense at all huh? Weird.

    Variables in the Past, Variables Now, Variables in the Future. You add them all up—-and what do you get????

    A crippling inability to make accurate predictions… but we make some pretty slick simulations based off of assumptions being true. /// So–charting a very stable increase in temps, ocean levels, ocean acidification and what not is crippling inaccurate because the models don’t predict whether or not it will rain in your neighborhood next Wednesday? Silly.

    all that intensity, and you go Anti-Science. Why is that?

    Strange how you call someone who insists on empirical evidence and the scientific method as being anti-science. But who am I kidding, you think Agnosticism is a form a Christianity. :) /// A predictive model does not provide empirical evidence. If I point a gun at your head, there is no empirical evidence that if I pull the trigger you will die. Yet, that is what you demand for AGW. Stupid just doesn’t catch the depravity of your ignorance.

  8. bobbo, are we Men of Science, or Devo says:

    Supreme Ultrahuman, perhaps tripping on his own sarcasm says:
    4/2/2013 at 8:23 pm

    The real question on AGW is “Who cares?” I haven’t seen one “solution” from a believer that’s moral and ethical. /// The future will be green renewable non polluting energy at rates cheaper than carbon burning today without even accounting for the pollution. We could probably have comparable pricing without the pollution RIGHT NOW, if all the hidden costs and subsidies were fully accounted for. What immoral about green?==>warts?

    If we could start from a foundation that promoting the “sustainable urban core” is a crime against humanity, we would could begin a discussion. /// Just the opposite. 95% of what is worthwhile takes place in the Urban Core. Thats where the people/machines/science/ideas/culture/printing pressess are. The country is for those who need a break from progress.

    Anything else is simply blowing CO2. /// Not if you are green.

    • klem says:

      “The future will be green renewable non polluting energy at rates cheaper than carbon burning today without even accounting for the pollution. ”

      Yes of course green will be non-polluting and cheaper than fossil fuels, in the future. The future is along time. Given enough time eventually everything happens, no matter how unlikely.

    • bobbo, are we Men of Science, or Devo says:

      “The climate has been warming since the industrial revolution, but how warm is climate now compared with the rest of the Holocene? Marcott et al. (p. 1198) constructed a record of global mean surface temperature for more than the last 11,000 years, using a variety of land- and marine-based proxy data from all around the world. The pattern of temperatures shows a rise as the world emerged from the last deglaciation, warm conditions until the middle of the Holocene, and a cooling trend over the next 5000 years that culminated around 200 years ago in the Little Ice Age. Temperatures have risen steadily since then, leaving us now with a global temperature higher than those during 90% of the entire Holocene.” ///// Excellent do-ill. I’ll put you down (sic!) as a Man of Science!

      • MikeN says:

        “In case you missed it, I repeat:…’the 20th century portion of our paleotemperature stack is not statistically robust, cannot be considered representative of global temperature changes….’

        “What that means is that this paper actually has nothing to do with a ‘hockey stick’ as it does not have the ability to reproduce 20th century temperatures in a manner that is ‘statistically robust.’ The new ‘hockey stick’ is no such thing, as Marcott et al. has no blade….

        “So what the paper actually shows is the following, after I have removed from the graph the 20th century period that is ‘not statistically robust.’”

        Pielke’s amended graph shows a long, steady decline in average global temperatures over the past few thousand years, and…that’s it. That’s all it shows.

        But Pielke notes that the 20th-century data, the dramatic blade of the hockey stick, was the centerpiece of the official press releases put out by the study’s sponsors, and of the media’s coverage. And the study’s authors chose to put that data on a graph and publish it. This, by the way, is standard operating procedure for global warming alarmists: publish a paper which is cautious and circumspect about the facts—then pair it with a sensational press release making exaggerated claims and an eye-catching, jerry-rigged graph to give the journalists a juicy picture to publish.

        http://realclearpolitics.com/articles/2013/04/04/the_end_of_an_illusion_117795.html

  9. jbenson2 says:

    As the decades roll on, the scientific evidence increases to shoot down the Global Warming fanatics.

    “A version of the graph appears in a leaked draft of the IPCC’s landmark Fifth Assessment Report due out later this year. It comes as leading climate scientists begin to admit that their worst fears about global warming will not be realized.”

    The hard proof that shows global warming forecasts were WRONG all along
    http://goo.gl/lF1mY

    The end of an illusion – the political movement of global warming
    http://goo.gl/v97P5

    • bobbo, are we Men of Science, or Devo says:

      Whats your point? Chart linked is still going up, just not at as steady a rate as some idiot might want???

      Science==not providing the certitude religious nut cakes require.

      Tell me it ain’t so?

      • MikeN says:

        Well yea, that’s the point. If there is no serious problem with global warming, as would be the case if temperatures just leveled off at the current level, as they have done for the past 15 years, then there is no reason to do what the scientist politicians declare must be done to save the planet. Even a low rate of warming suggests that action is not required, as the costs are too high.

        Now if you are correct that the future is green energy cheaper than fossil fuel energy, then even a high rate of warming would show no reason to do anything, as the problem will take care of itself.

        • bobbo, are we Men of Science, or Devo says:

          Mike–your representation of the challenge faced by the human race regarding our energy requirements and the co2 pollution effects to secure that energy is …… a break with reality.

          My memory is that you have posted in the past much more intelligently… so I assume you are goofing right now but that is not your common approach.

          Sadly, while you “might be” joking, too many of our policies are right in line with the know nothing anti science non reality fantasy you announce.

          What in the world would cause the heating of our atmosphere/water/earth to level off and stop?

          Magical non-think of the worst kind.

          • MikeN says:

            You state that the future is one of cheap green energy. In that case, the level of CO2 would level off and presumably go lower, assuming that man is responsible for the increase.

          • MikeN says:

            Oh, and the heating of the planet has stopped for the last ten years according to the atmospheric temperatures, and temperatures of the ocean up to 700 meters.

  10. bobbo, are we Men of Science, or Devo says:

    MikeN says:
    4/5/2013 at 12:02 pm

    You state that the future is one of cheap green energy. /// Either that or the co2 will continue to pollute ending in catastrophic wipe out in any number of waves that once cascading can be impossible to stop. Massive methane release from warming was a great extinction event in the past. It doesn’t take much to break “society.” Humans will still be around…. not really the same thing.

    In that case, the level of CO2 would level off and presumably go lower, assuming that man is responsible for the increase. /// Ha, ha. Yes….assuming.
    MikeN says:
    4/5/2013 at 12:38 pm

    Oh, and the heating of the planet has stopped for the last ten years according to the atmospheric temperatures, and temperatures of the ocean up to 700 meters. /// Is this idea new to you? Hint: re read the OP.

  11. jbenson2 says:

    Obama and Al Gore are the real “Climate Deniers”

    The new climate deniers are the liberals who, despite their obsession with climate change, have managed to miss the biggest story in climate science, which is that there hasn’t been any global warming for about a decade and a half.

    Scientists are stumped by lack of climate change.

    http://goo.gl/LJGYi

    • bobbo, are we Men of Science, or Devo says:

      Did you even glance over the OP?

      Read the executive summary of the IPCC report?

      Find an alternative theory for what happens to co2 that is pumped into the air==>ocean?

      Notice the change in weather over the past few years?

      Yep…. as long as nothing is happening to YOU, RIGHT NOW….. then nothing is happening.

      What a dolt.

      • jbenson2 says:

        The real dolts are the fools who believed all the Climategate crap that was submitted as scientific consensus and proof of global warming .

        “You think man can destroy the planet? What intoxicating vanity.”
        http://youtube.com/watch?v=ozO4YB98mCY

        • bobbo, are we Men of Science, or Devo says:

          I’ve been meaning to read Crichton’s critique. You and he, atleast from Heston’s speech, confuse/conflate the mere survival of life on earth ((which NO ONE ELSE DOES)) with the collapse of human civilization.

          You argue that the collapse of human civilization doesn’t matter/isn’t real/is of no concern because life will survive even if only deep in the ocean or soil?

          You can’t be more stupid than this. Why don’t you kill yourself in some auto-erotic way? You know—other people will continue on. What difference will it make?

          Brain Dead Hooman.

          • jbenson2 says:

            The laughs are on you boobbo.

            On Friday, the Energy Information Administration reported that carbon dioxide emissions fell once again in 2012, bringing the United States’ emissions levels down to a two-decade low. The primary reason? The increasing availability and use of natural gas made possible by fracking, of course.

            It’s another example that environmental quality and economic prosperity are not mutually exclusive, even on a large scale. The innovations, efficiencies, and technological developments that come with an advanced economy can be good for both humanity and the planet.

          • MikeN says:

            Just as CO2 is correlated to higher temperatures, we now have proof that not signing global warming treaties reduces carbon emissions for major industrial nations.

  12. klem says:

    Ok ok you two, stop calling each other names. When you call each other names like that, it means you’re frustrated because your arguments are being ignored by the opposing side.

    This is a good blog, normally when the skeptics show up the host will ban them immediately. Its a good blog when the host allows both sides to battle it out. But when the name calling starts, often the host will start a-bannin’.

  13. jbenson2 says:

    klem,

    Welcome to the forum. You must be new here.

  14. bobbo, we think with words, and flower with ideas says:

    jbenson2 not understanding the clearest of simple concepts says:
    4/6/2013 at 3:06 pm

    The laughs are on you boobbo.

    On Friday, the Energy Information Administration reported that carbon dioxide emissions fell once again in 2012, /// No link, but blindfolded I know this was a decrease in the RATE of increase, not a reduction in the absolute total. We are being poinsoned from the absolute total==not the rate. Imagine being in a locked room that is being flooded with water from a large pipe. Are you going to rejoice when the water flow is reduced slightly????…….. and yet you do.

    Silly Hooman.

    bringing the United States’ emissions levels down to a two-decade low. /// Killing us then, and killing us now. Your point is that it is slightly slower? Sad. Society will not survive until the absolute level is reduced.

    The primary reason? The increasing availability and use of natural gas made possible by fracking, of course. /// “Good” only if the alternative is some other higher carbon polluting source. Bad–as it maintains our dependence on carbon. We gotta go green.

    It’s another example that environmental quality and economic prosperity are not mutually exclusive, /// and yet this example exactly reveals that zero sum game.

    even on a large scale. The innovations, efficiencies, and technological developments that come with an advanced economy can be good for both humanity and the planet. /// Ha, ha. I’ll bet you buy off on “clean coal?”

    Are idiots born, or do you just choose to be this stupid?

  15. Anny says:

    I have come to the conclusion that we all have a little blame global warming and its consequences and guilt even more politicians who do not slow down.

    http://globalwarmingweb.com/