1. dusanmal says:

    Problem is – that is not possible while keeping Obamacare law. Not because of technicalities (that Obama “can” [read “legally can’t but would do anyway”] do). Because people kicked off their individual insurance are the fodder to feed the Obamacare law. If they are not kicked off (and sign for new, more expensive policies) – Obamacare collapses under its own weight.
    Now, Obamacare is designed to (later) collapse under its own weight, as Harry Reid sez’ – end goal is single payer system. However, for that end goal health care insurance industry must be first destroyed. Obamacare is collapsing too soon. Even the individual insurance market is not completely killed, yet (another reason why Obama won’t take this advice-he wants and needs this segment to be killed and killed soon). And that was to be a first step of “kill segment by segment ’till no option is left”.
    Lying liars with trust in BigGovernment miscalculated how inept it actually is to carry out this plan.

    • Broke Bloak says:

      So hard to read the comment. (Please go back to school or run it through a quality word processor.)

      That crap aside, I think I agree! I particularly agree with the last statement:

      Lying liars with trust in BigGovernment miscalculated how inept it actually is to carry out this plan.

      • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

        Yes–very much like breaking an egg to make an omelet. Given Puke hatred of the working man, this was the only way to do it.

        sucks to deal with the real world.

        • Tim says:

          The People: “This egg is off! It’s got lumps, blood, foul oders, and fuzz {not feathers, fuzz}… Is that a lump of raw tumor somebody encouraged to grow out in the naked albumen really prostate cancer??”

          The Man: “Well, now that you started breaking them, do not be troubled as we are engineering a generation of retarded kids eating GMOs with hair growing out of their mouths and no sense of smell or eye contact so that any little anomalies between our product and what one’s body would have naturally desired will soon be culled out and no communication of previous conditions are any longer possible.”

          Of course, I offer no remedy. Organic labelling is probably just as subverted and eating the food without smoking the protective herbs which are forbidden will render one wordy but vaccuous, in any case. Prions are PortTrendy. Slow mad-cow without non-y’all or your associates degenerating at the rate as you ever noticing.

          • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

            The People: “This egg is off! //// Well then: GET A DIFFERENT EGG!

            Jeebus==stoopid hoomans. Have to lead them to water then dunk their heads underwater until the reptillian part of their brains react.

            Ain’t too much thinkin going on.

  2. Hmeyers says:

    Obama doesn’t care about any of this.

    His wife and kids are doing great, he’s off to play golf again.

    Please quit bothering Obama with his job as president, it is really irritating him!

    (I’m really enjoying the Obamacare fiasco … it reinforces my view that our political system and government are beyond broken — therefore affirms my general indifference and apathy towards politics.)

    • ± says:

      All your feeling are correct, but please vote third party so you are not part of the problem.

    • Kiwini says:

      All that Mr. Obama cares about is saving his so-called “legacy”.

      He can’t find his own ass with both hands, and we’re paying for both the ACA’s creation and the eventual repair that’ll be needed after it fails. The biggest unanswered question is how far and how costly the “unintended consequences” will total up to.

      His real legacy will be receiving due credit for pushing the biggest failure of all time onto a trusting nation, and breaking many good things along the way.

      And if it kicks us into a depression, his name will be forever linked to all the misery that will follow.

      Just another prick from Punahou, he is.

      • Broke Bloak says:

        Think again! Yes, it is ultimately President ZERO’s fault and his legacy will very likely be the first footnote in the great American societal collapse. But can you remember who said, “we need to pass it in order to see what’s in it“?

        That’s right! Your own crazy bitch from Dvorak land and strong liberal hold out, Numb Nuts Nancy Pelosi!

        So see if you Bay Area douche bags can do anything about that crazy piece of crap and perhaps elect your ex cock-sucking mayor instead. Even if you had to settle for your mass murderer Charles Manson, it would still be a slight improvement!

        Don’t worry too much about President ZERO! He’ll continue to let anyone with a jackass hall pass pull his strings.

    • Gwad his own self says:

      I’m really enjoying the Obamacare fiasco

      Then you’re a piece of shit. These are real people getting hurt. You can hate obamcare and also hate the results of the botched launch.

      • Hmeyers says:

        You, sir, must be one of those lefty/righty people — who root for some “team” even when they screw up.

        You and people like you are why our politicians SUCK.

        This situation isn’t MY fault — it is your fault.

        I can laugh, will laugh and will laugh in the future at this stupidity.

        I didn’t create this situation, and I sure as hell will laugh at bumbling incompetence.

        Point as many fingers at me as you wish.

        And, yes, I am enjoying this fiasco 110%.

        Knuckleheads like you can point a finger at me — but what the froot loops do I have to do with this mess?

        [… you dumbass knuckledragging fool … ]

      • MikeN says:

        The botched launch isn’t the problem. It is ObamaCare working properly that is the problem.

    • Dallas says:

      “..enjoying the Obamacare fiasco..”

      Why do you worship the Health Insurance industry? Is the current system working out well for your employer or are you getting free healthcare now with Medicare/Medicaid ?

  3. Dallas says:

    Bill Clinton is the best president we ever had (and will ever have) and what he says, I totally support.

    However, I think the insurance companies will CONTINUE to cancel policies and RAISE premiums as they have ALWAYS been doing. The difference now is they have the “ObamaCare excuse” that the Teapublicans have fed the sheeple.

    • David says:

      Better than Shillary…seriously?

      I always know you were sexist.

      • Dallas says:

        The cool thing they come as a pair. We get both Hillary as well as Bill when Hillary gets elected in 2016.

        That would be an AMAZING executive office.

    • Broke Bloak says:

      Give that man a CIGAR!

      Wait… What?! He’s not a MAN?! That didn’t stop ol slick Willy. In fact, he was IMPEACHED over it!

      Of course, facts like that don’t exist in Dallas-ville.

      • Dallas says:

        Bill wasn’t removed from office and that is the important part.

        The GOP impeachment of Pres Bill Clinton for getting his knob polished took place while terrorists were plotting against America. The GOP is directly responsible for Al Qaeda taking root while they distracted our nation over what happens in most, non-conservative households.

    • ± says:

                      He is also our first black president.

      • me says:

        Insurance companies will raise their prices just like dogs will lick their balls – because they can. Only a free marketplace will keep prices in check. Think auto-insurance: no group policies, no government intervention, no employer involvement, just a simple and free marketplace.

      • Dallas says:

        Yes, he is often referred as that. I love him.
        I also read his book. Amazing.

        • Mextli says:

          He won you forever when he said “I did not have sexual relations with that woman”.

          I know you swooned and said “I have a chance”.

          • Dallas says:

            Pres Bill Clinton is not my type.

            I’m more of a Paul Walker (actor) kinda guy.

    • LibertyLover says:

      Too bad the Obamacare Congress didn’t fix that.

      Inept or corrupt?

      • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

        Big anal fistula of dishonesty there Loser. Obama had a majority of Congress, but not “a controlling majority” as you Criminally Rich like to caterwaul about.

        Lets see……………..oh yeah…………..Obamacare is CRAP (ha, ha) but its still the Breakfast of Champions for your worthless VNPWHNRSOTFTTYAAY, but change can only come when………………………you change. And when that change doesn’t work, YOU GET ANOTHER EGG.

        Simple really.

        • LibertyLover says:

          Sunshine on my shoulders makes me happy!

          Thanks for the worship-glow, minion.

        • Dallas says:

          “Big anal fistula of dishonesty there Loser”


          Love that term I need to use it. Also, new word for me : ‘caterwaul’.

          This is one of the few things I like about you.

    • MikeN says:

      Bill Clinton as better than Obama?

  4. This is like the pot calling the kettle black
    I once sent around an article of just how many people had “mysteriously died ” who were involved with the Clintons
    People could not believe it
    Yet here we are in 2013 – past Benghazi – Hillary missing in action , MRI before hearings her aroused flashup at the questions “What does it matter ??”
    What a corrupt system overall – the Washington establishment against America
    You wonder who the big criminals are

  5. sargasso_c says:

    I’m only thinking how very thin Bill looks.

  6. fishguy says:

    Bill is a very sick man. However, as we know, the elites do not die like the rest of us.

    On the other had, I saw an interview in which he states that he is not allowed solid food, anymore. He said during Thanksgiving they let him chew two bites of turkey but he has to sip it out. No swallow.

    Karma, right?

  7. bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

    Snopes debunks the death list meme re Clintons but I couldn’t find his health prognosis. the Dude looks sick to me. One blog said Parkinsons but Michael J Fox is handling that disease fairly well. Hmmm….haven’t seen a picture of Monica for awhile. I assume she got fat as most middling females do.

    ……..you know…….all the $$$ spent on life extension technologies. Its really going to burn when the rich start living in good health for several centuries. Until now, the Grim Reaper dancing with the Three Sisters was the only thing that seemed fair about life.

    Ha, ha.

    • Tim says:

      I saw tonight three sister’s burning and muddied by the riverside
      I led my love to that burning building
      Three sisters were my mother’s pride
      Oh. My. God. I left three sisters burning. — The Veils

      http://youtube.com/watch?v=QUrO-gKO_tg

      • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

        In context, I could only be referring to the Moirai of Greek Mythology. but any nearly nude women dancing around at midnight would be close enough.

        • Tim says:

          “Those sirens done loved him up and turned him into a horny-toad.” — Delmar O’Donnell, Oh, Brother; Where Art Thou?

        • Tim says:

          Will man never learn to not let women from the pride of public education haphazardly run around with scissors {Yes, I mean you, Atropos. You clumsy cow} ??

          just lie
          http://youtube.com/watch?v=BUsUWFANPS8

        • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

          Sirens aren’t “Sisters” at all. They perform a totally different function.

          As to lying to game the system….again, a totally different function from the RICH cheating death to the continuuing gulf between RICH–and the rest of us.

          Sirens–what, 2-3 degrees of separation? No telling on the liars.

          Nope. Not close enough.

          • Tim says:

            Not qualified to quite be siren navigator women —

            “”After assaulting her husband, Lorena left the apartment with the severed penis, drove a short while, then rolled down the car window and threw the penis into a field. Realizing the severity of the incident, she stopped and called 911.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_and_Lorena_Bobbitt

            Lorena Bobbitt cuts her husband’s penis off, throws it out a moving vehicle, and is not even ticketed for littering.

            Old couple on interstate behind her —

            man: “GAk! I’ll be glad when we’re out of this state because we’re almost out of washer fluid.”

            woman: “Did you see the size of the dick on that bug?”

          • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

            One of the Three Sisters cuts the thread of fate thereby selecting your experience, so, I have to give this a valid Tangent Rating of 1.

            You are improving.

          • Tim says:

            What happens on the lyre stays on the lyre — just tell your wife the stripes on your ass is an allergic reaction to tiny-tarts.

  8. MikeN says:

    Translation, I don’t want Obama taking Hillary down with him.

    Second translation: Message to Obama, you have to keep your end of the deal and support Hillary as payback for my endorsement.

    • LibertyLover says:

      That was my take.

    • Dallas says:

      This argument works well in the bubble.

      • Tim says:

        No smoking, alcohol, farting, or arguing in the bathysphere. Keep hands off buttons, levers, and port latches at all times while going down. Transponders have been supplied so that one may still hear Dallas after his natural flageolet voice goes ultra-sonic from the helium-oxygen breathing mixture. Please do not engage transponders if it appears his lips are moving. Have a nice dive.

        • Dallas says:

          Stop being an anal fistula

          • DeepTech says:

            Uh. Oh. The windlass has malfunctioned. Dallas. I see the inspector noted in the last manifest that critical components of your FATASS has been heavily gnawed by some sort of rodent.

            It is ill-advised to attempt a return in a damaged emergency Fast-Ascent Tethered-Anchor Survival Suit.

            Explosive decompression is an ugly thing
            http://youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=VufZLo94MFU#t=1016

            You need to stay here and just hang out while the rest of us go and yell at the VISTA controller.

            good luck,
            6ix out.

    • ± says:

      Right on both accounts. This is crystal clear to anyone but Dallas.

    • Tim says:

      “Take my concubine, please.”

  9. MikeN says:

    And if you will renew the president’s contract, you will feel it. You will feel it.

  10. MikeN says:

    Obama to Clinton: I’ll honor my commitments when you honor the commitments to your wife.

  11. prof. Johnnycakes says:

    All the smoke & mirrors still doesn’t address outrageous expenses of insurance Doctors and Hospitals must pay and how that trickles down. Obama; savior or satan, still isn’t addressing the litigious nature of it all, the massive jackpot payouts and supply and equiptment rackets.

    Triage some of those issues, then we can move forward on getting help for the poor patients, stop fraud & theft and unethical practices from the top down.

    • Tim says:

      We need to start with some sort of drug war escalation to reinvigorate the current business model.

      No wonder no one wants to pay for the $10 tylenol when their sister snuck in $1 of a hit off butane-extracted liver-boxing side effect-free Blue Dream medicinal cannabis.

      Unless this changes, the allopathic system is in danger of excluding the richest .003% of us. That is, if it doesn’t collapse alltogether.

  12. bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

    Trying to “project” a bit here. What “IS” going to happen?

    Obamacare isn’t going away, so if it “fails” in some way, seems to me it would most likely cause some additional “emergency funding” by the Feds? Afterall–the main beneficiary of Obamacare is the Junk Ins Co and Sham Policies by all involved==ie==Big Ins Co/Big Biz/CRIMINAL RICH.

    Obamacare could still work==pulled thru the eye of the needle by the State Programs run by Dem’s that do work… showing that in reality, if Obama had the backbone, they system will “work” all disabilities included.

    OF COURSE===Obamacare COULD NOT WORK. by design.

    IT WAS/IS A REPUBLICAN PROGRAM.

    Ha, ha. How many of you numbnuts have it in your MIND that our healthcare system was bankrupting America and CHANGE was required? But Obams was faced with the entrenched stupidity/misanthropy of the Teapublican retards and could not bet single payer/extended MediCare thru……. so what to do???

    Sad, but maybe BLOWING THE SYSTEM UP and dealing with the consequent pieces really was the only action possible.

    Context: long term vs short term. Therein lies the tale.

    • McCullough says:

      The Democrats will push for and obtain a delay in ObieWanCare until after the 2014 elections (natch), and Obama will steal more of our tax monies, and give everyone a subsidy to offset the extra expense. The typical morons will worship Him as Redeemer.

      Hillary and other weasel like Dems will continue to distance themselves from this shithole of an idea, kill off Bill at some point and run for, then win the 2016 Presidency with Hillary and First Lady as yet unnamed.

      Oh and blame the whole thing on the Republicans which will be extremely popular among the low-info mouth breathers.

      Ta-da!!!

      • Tim says:

        Ugg. I think the pattern has become obvious. They will float whosoever happens to be the ripest, most fetid, most juicily-blackmailed turd in the TIA database.

        Lordy, Lordy. Watch it be that greasy, smarmy Schumer for VP. The other wing will bug it up and throw it in our faces also probably by bringing back Bob Dole to run alongside Criss (whalesperm repository) Christie or Lindsey (methmouth) Graham.

        We can only hope the whole lot steps into open manholes as they fiddle with their vote-for-me apps after resort to fisting teenagers on the sidewalk to force them to explain ‘cloud computing’.

        Contengiencies might be:
        Rubio
        Jeb Bush
        mexican baby-Bush
        {cough} Newt Getrich {cough}
        I think, Cruz is probably out (we just don’t know why yet)
        Rand Paul will be found sleeping in a mud-bath with an packed AquaBuddha vaporizor and a dead underage male prostitute.

        I hope all that ^^ is just so much cynicism; But, first impressions are often correct.

      • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

        Your two analyses would be correct “until” you TRY to provide an answer on what gubment policy should be regarding healthcare in our society.

        In truth, the Republicans HAVE NO PROGRAM. Going back pre Obama===>our system of 45Million people without insurance getting rare care thru the Emergency Rooms WAS BANKRUPTING AMERICA.

        Hard to have ((sh*t===its IMPOSSIBLE!!)) a rational discussion with people who have NO MEMORY and NO IDEAS.

        Fact is–Obamacare fully implemented will save money. Will it still be expensive and “cost” you Freedom Fighters thru taxation or copays on Employer based policies? Of course. What do you think?==living in society is “free.” You actually want to be FREELOADERS.

        Ha, ha. Silly dopey Hoomans. Criticizing ANYONE ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING when they (YOU!) have no ideas of your own.

        About as stupid as it gets.

    • MikeN says:

      >IT WAS/IS A REPUBLICAN PROGRAM.

      Just because some liberals say it doesn’t make it true.

      • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

        Neither does knee-jerk nay saying.

        You are an idiot.

        Just do a short google: Obamacare = Heritage Foundation (a Puke Think Tank).

  13. MikeN says:

    So Dallas why is Clinton better than Obama, and should Obama listen to Clinton here?

  14. MikeN says:

    Come on McCullough, can’t you steal a pic from somewhere and put up When Clinton lied, nobody died.

  15. LibertyLover says:

    This entire problem is an unintended consequence of telling the insurance companies how to issue policies (you must cover this, etc.).

    If you now tell them they have to keep policies in force that don’t make money, they will only raise the cost of new policies to compensate, making the entire program even less viable than it already is.

    Obama can’t do anything about it and I don’t think Congress should do anything about it. If we’re stuck with this piece of shit, I suggest we let the market figure out how to fix it the best way it can.

    The darkly comedic point of this entire fiasco is people were told the prices would go up but the people were laughed at. I wonder if the laughers understand now.

    • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

      Once again, everything you say is WRONG.

      Christ—never dealing with reality.

      Silly Hooman.

    • LibertyLover says:

      Damn, I hate being right all the time.

      http://tinyurl.com/kkhxpe4

      But the insurance industry warned that [allowing the older policies now] could raise premiums for everyone and state insurance commissioners questioned whether it was even feasible at this late date.

      http://tinyurl.com/lqychmy

      Obama has power to work with policies that were written before Mar 2010, but he has to have Congress in order to affect policies written after that.

      And since there are no policies that old, or a very tiny number, there isn’t a whole lot he can do except hope the GOP led House and the Dem led Senate can work together to make this happen.

  16. McCullough says:

    Clinton on Obama in 2008:

    Mr. Clinton criticizing Mr. Obama in the heat of the 2008 primary campaign, with the famous line: “Give me a break, this whole thing is the biggest fairy tale I have ever seen.”

    I’m sure Dallas agrees.

    • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

      What is it about: “…in the heat of the 2008 primary campaign” do you ignore in your dog pile effort to deny healthcare to Millions of good Americans?

  17. LibertyLover says:

    I just read that Obama is letting people keep their old plans.

    How can someone who said this was the law of the land now say, “Unless I say so!” ?

    This is going to nothing more than make things cascade into total failure this time next year when 25 million policies have to be dropped.

    This guy has completely lost it. He only need to look to Venezuela to see what happens when the government tries to dictate policy willy-nilly.

    This move should scare everyone.

    • Dallas says:

      Whaaaaaa. Oh, the agony. Stop being an anal fistula.

      He delayed it because it makes sense to delay it.

      • LibertyLover says:

        He doesn’t have the authority. He is supposed to carry out the laws, not make them up as he goes along.

        And it’s funny you are saying that. This is what the GOP tried to do a couple of months ago and he let the government shut down because of it.

        Irony- It’s not for the sheeple.

        • Dallas says:

          Evidently , he can. It’s good to be the President !

          Btw , this affects 5% of the sheeple. Most of which get an improved policy. He’s doing this to stop the wailing.

          • LibertyLover says:

            You are sad, little man. I don’t think you could pour piss out of a boot if the instructions were written on the heel.

            You have absolutely no idea what is coming.

          • Dallas says:

            How long did you have the piss & boots joke in your holster?

          • LibertyLover says:

            Scooter, I’m a Navy vet. I can peel paint and never use a cuss word.

          • Dallas says:

            Well I salute you. Are you still getting free government healthcare or is that over with ?

          • LibertyLover says:

            No government healthcare. My company provides it for all my employees.

            In fact, it’s all going up 23%.

            We’ve raised our rates to compensate.

            Thanks for paying for my insurance increase.

      • Birdman says:

        Har! what an idiot. You do amuse me though. Yes you do.

      • MikeN says:

        It makes sens to keep worshipping the insurance companies? Do you worship the same God as your Messiah?

    • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

      He delayed it to allow the caterwauling anal fistulas to be resected and have the anti-biotics of the State Programs to continue on.

      The move will educate the public on how bad their policies are.

      Criticize Obama for not delaying the program, then criticize him when he does.

      Stupid anal fistula.

  18. Supreme Ultrahuman (I see the comment system is still designed for retards.) says:

    Republicans are retarded and Democrats are actively evil and we all suffer because of it. We don’t even focus on the important shit anymore.

    • Dallas says:

      Reforming the healthcare insurance industry is the single most important issue that Congress can do. This is why our President is focusing on this.

      Kudos to Pres Obama for holding firm on this on top of all the issues he must deal with. Too bad Congress is masterbating on vagina inspection tools and gay marriage.

  19. Captain Obvious says:

    The website fiasco will be told around IT campfires for the next 20 years.

  20. Captain Obvious says:

    BTW, if you don’t think Bill has a political motive here, then think again.

    • MikeN says:

      I’ve thought about it a second time, and concluded that Bill Clinton was analyzing the problems of delivering health care and decided that honoring your commitment is the right thing to do. I see nothing political in asking the president to honor his commitment. Plus, Bill Clinton does not operate that way. He is a very pragmatic man.

      • Dallas says:

        I agree with you.

        I’m glad you exhibit periods of rational thought. Stay with the current dosage.

  21. MikeN says:

    A recession is when your neighbor loses his health insurance. A depression is when you lose your health insurance. A recovery is when Congress loses its health insurance.

  22. bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

    …..and if you don’t have insurance, or have a crap policy that will be dropped the moment you get sick, or have a policy that you lose when you change jobs, or have a policy you can’t afford the co-pay on or the 6 month premium THAT is the status quo for 150Million Americans.

    But screw them.

    They aren’t successful and deserving like us.

    I’ve got my insurance, so screw the rest of you.

  23. Captain Obvious says:

    I wonder which Republican Hillary is going to spank in 2016? Any guesses?

    • Dallas says:

      I’m thinking Chris Christie. He seems to have a good sense about him but he’s still a survivalist.

      if he drops several hundred pounds and not come across like an anal fistula, he actually has a good shot.

      • Captain Obvious says:

        Christie could win it all. Unfortunately he’s a Reagin style Republican – could never make it through the primaries now.

        • Dallas says:

          Good point in that the Teatards would pose a problem.

          However, he may appeal to the middle third and if the Teapublicans choose another cler loser in the primaries or a loon like Sarah Palin, he may navigate through.

    • LibertyLover says:

      It doesn’t matter which Dem runs. The country has passed the tipping point. There are now more people getting free stuff than not for anyone who promises to bring spending under control to win.

      • Dallas says:

        What’s the right amount spending?
        How should that spending be proportioned?

        • LibertyLover says:

          It doesn’t matter what the right amount is anymore. It’s never going away. The gap between the haves and have nots is going to continually grow.

          People don’t realize that companies (and therefore their owners) don’t pay taxes. Consumers do.

          You may raise the minimum wage to $25/hour, but do you really think the company is going to hurt because of that? No, Big Macs will just cost $10 each instead. Who is that going to affect more? The well-off guy driving the fully-loaded F-150 or the poor guy driving the 15 year old Camry? What good is $25/hour if you still have to work 30 minutes to earn enough to eat one?

          You do nothing but a disservice to the poor by giving them things because you are only taking it back when they have to buy something at the increased cost. They think they are still getting stiffed all over again. They don’t realize their paycheck is being hijacked like it has been all along.

          You think you are helping the poor by raising my company’s insurance rates so you can have the money to give the poor insurance subsidies? No, because we raised our rates that we charge our customers. Everything we do now is going to cost you more to purchase (gas, electricity, food, electronics, etc.). Sure, they may get a $1,000/month subsidy for insurance, but was that really worth the 50% increase in everything else they have to buy?

          The only way to fix this is to stop giving out free stuff. And those receiving said free stuff agree with me — until it is time to take THEIR free stuff. Then it’s “Aw, Hell NO! I ain’t votin’ for you!”

          The only thing left at this stage of the game is rioting in the streets.

          • Captain Obvious says:

            Government subsidies for the petroleum business has reached $500 billion per year worldwide. The crude oil business is about $1 trillion per year. We’re talking about a 50% subsidy there.

            So much for the market’s ability to innovate through competition.

          • MikeN says:

            This government subsidies is just bs. These are mostly standard company tax credits that are being relabelled as subsidies for oil companies. They might get royalties and other special favors, but largely they are available to all companies.

          • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

            Say Mickey—how is a tax credit not a subsidy?

          • LibertyLover says:

            CO/M, That is part of the problem. The government shouldn’t have a hand in it at all, picking winners and losers. If a company wants to turn a profit, it should be profitable, not rely on the government to make up any shortfall.

            Think Solyndra as an example in amongst all of the others.

          • Dallas says:

            Stop milking Solyndra. It just shows you have nothing else.
            Also, the government actually has a better investment hit rate than many venture capitalists – and they’re doing it in critical national infrastructure that wall street pigs avoid.

            Stop being a fistula

          • LibertyLover says:

            Sigh.

            Solyndra was just one example of the entire rampant problem. If you are going to personally take issue with everything except those proposed by Obama, you are part of the problem.

            Get over yourself and look at the big picture.

          • MikeN says:

            Bobbo, reading comprehension problems again? Hint you are focusing on the wrong distinction.

          • Dallas says:

            U fail to see the big picture. The greater the separation of wealth , the greater opportunity for civil unrest.
            The root issue is not that people are taking advantage of government handouts. The root issue is concentration of wealth to the top 3%.
            Your party killed the middle class in addition to exacerbating the wealth gap.

          • LibertyLover says:

            You win.

            I’ll let you be first in the line when they line people up against the wall.

            Good job.

          • Dallas says:

            I know it’s popular to fault government assistance to the poor as the cause of all society ailments but the negative effects of gross and unfair concentration of wealth and government resources to the top 1% is also at fault.

            You need more insightful friends. Sheeple might look up to you with the former excuse but intelligent, unbiased thinkers will not be impressed and merely just nod at you politely and walk away.

          • LibertyLover says:

            You have completely missed the entire point of the conversation.

            Let me tone it down some for you.

            For starters:

            Do you believe in the minimum wage laws?

          • Dallas says:

            That’s a rhetorical question because there is a min wage law. Ok, I’ll bite.

            In a perfect world, I would have opposed it. Because it’s perfect (and neither is capitalism) and we already have it (and so does China), I’d say yes.

            You would say no because It increases poverty, unemployment and less money for the 1%.

            I believe there needs to be a moral ‘poverty floor ‘ for Anericans. Why do you hate poor white children with blue eyes ?

          • LibertyLover says:

            It wasn’t a trick question. Honest.

            So, you believe in them.

            Now, the next question is:

            Do companies look at their labor costs as a negative or positive cash flow?

          • Dallas says:

            Good companies consider their ‘human resources’ as an asset.

            Shitty companies consider their ‘labor costs’ as a drain on profits.

          • LibertyLover says:

            So good companies look at the checks they write for salaries and put it in the income column?

            Is that what you are saying?

          • Dallas says:

            No. I said, good companies consider their ‘human resources’ as an asset.

            Payroll is considered an expense. Similar to office toilet paper and engraved pens, but different.

          • LibertyLover says:

            You are avoiding the question again.

            I asked about cash flow.

            Do companies look at their labor costs as a negative or positive cash flow?

            I didn’t ask about your personal feelings.

          • Dallas says:

            I’m no accountant but I would think that ‘cost ‘, by definition, is a negative cash flow.

            Save me the suspense. Where are you going with this, counsel ?

          • LibertyLover says:

            You are correct. Payroll is a negative cash flow to a company.

            A good company – one with low overhead – should see around 80-85% of its negative cash flow in salaries alone. Everything else is considered a COG (cost in goods – for instance, you were to buy something and then sell it back out at a small profit), office supply, and other overhead. But I digress.

            If a company has priced its product at a level where its own employees can afford to buy said product for a reasonable amount of money (i.e., McDonalds $4.50 burger for $9/hour or GM $25k car for $50k salary), do you think this is a good ratio of product to salary?

          • Dallas says:

            “A good company – one with low overhead – should see around 80-85% of its negative cash flow in salaries alone”

            Don’t mean to be rude but you’re full of shit. For instance , Intel is a great company and their overhead is enormous. They have to run favs at least to 70 % utilization to make money. But I digress.

            “If a company has priced its product at a level where its own employees can afford to buy said product for a reasonable amount of money (i.e., McDonalds $4.50 burger for $9/hour or GM $25k car for $50k salary), do you think this is a good ratio of product to salary?”

            There is no relationship between a company’s product and their employees ability or desire to buy it .

            I still can’t find the pony in your pile.

          • LibertyLover says:

            I said “should see” not “had to have.”

            Using your metrics, I must be one hell of a businessman because mine is 79%. Thanks for the compliment 🙂 I shoot for 85%, though.

            But we can argue that point all the day long. The point being is that salaries take up an extremely large percentage of a company’s cash. We both agree on that (I’ll use your 70% number because it makes me look good).

            If, “all things being equal,” something’s production cost for a product was $100, then $70 of that is needed just to pay salaries.

            If a company sells its product at production cost, it breaks even – no profit, no loss – and 70% of that cost is used to pay the salaries.

            Do you agree to that?

  24. bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

    LibertyLover in a rare appearance past bumper sticker stuttering says:
    11/17/2013 at 9:21 am

    It doesn’t matter what the right amount is anymore. /// Right is right…. it always matters. May not be known or generally agreed to, but it always matters.

    It’s never going away. The gap between the haves and have nots is going to continually grow. // Until the next collapse. Income/wealth gap now about the same as before 1929…..and the French Revolution.

    People don’t realize that companies (and therefore their owners) don’t pay taxes. Consumers do. /// BS. Both do.

    You may raise the minimum wage to $25/hour, but do you really think the company is going to hurt because of that? /// Some will. They will adapt or go out of business.

    No, Big Macs will just cost $10 each instead. Who is that going to affect more? /// Too many ripple effects with lots of interplay, lag time, unintended consequences …etc. As with any and all social positions—some will gain while others lose. Hard to argue as a generality that the working poor would not benefit from an increase in wages.

    The well-off guy driving the fully-loaded F-150 or the poor guy driving the 15 year old Camry? What good is $25/hour if you still have to work 30 minutes to earn enough to eat one? /// With current min wave from about 5 to 8 dollars, your $25 figure makes you sound like you are very basically out of touch.

    You do nothing but a disservice to the poor by giving them things because you are only taking it back when they have to buy something at the increased cost. They think they are still getting stiffed all over again. They don’t realize their paycheck is being hijacked like it has been all along. /// Yes, the poor have too much money. What an asstard you are.

    You think you are helping the poor by raising my company’s insurance rates so you can have the money to give the poor insurance subsidies? No, because we raised our rates that we charge our customers. Everything we do now is going to cost you more to purchase (gas, electricity, food, electronics, etc.). Sure, they may get a $1,000/month subsidy for insurance, but was that really worth the 50% increase in everything else they have to buy? /// Even in this confused hypothetical, the poor will have access to healthcare. After food to eat, thats about the highest priority. Yes, yes–they may have to sell their cadillacs they drive around in.

    The only way to fix this is to stop giving out free stuff. And those receiving said free stuff agree with me — until it is time to take THEIR free stuff. Then it’s “Aw, Hell NO! I ain’t votin’ for you!” //// Free stuff. What is this mythical boogie man that has you ranting off the cuff? Healthcare?==THE WHOLE POINT, is that socialized medicine is cheaper than our current system. Unless you want people dieing in the street from preventable causes, you have no solution. Spoiled Child not wanting to share his huggy bear.

    The only thing left at this stage of the game is rioting in the streets. /// ……..or whining like a Teapublican Hypocritical Loon.

    Stupid, spoiled, human child.

  25. MikeN says:

    >Yes, yes–they may have to sell their cadillacs they drive around in.

    You will be taken care of, but don’t even think about living like the rich.

    • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

      Hey Mickey—“how yu doin?”

      No. The RICH at issue do not drive cadillacs. They GET driven in Rollses. I think I prefer the Bently, but I’m not sure why.

  26. MikeN says:

    Joe Wilso should not have apologized, he should have repeated it. It is Obama who owes Wilson an apology.
    ‘YOU LIE!’

  27. MikeN says:

    The employer health insurance plans will fall too. There is the employer mandate which is causing firing and working less hours. But those plans will be cancelled too, starting in a few months.

    And the costs will go up. It turns out that my plan to only buy insurance after I get sick has just gotten more attractive. The hospital will pay your premiums!

    http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2013/11/will-hospitals-buy-aca-insurance-for-their-uncovered-patients.html

  28. Kent says:

    Americans are no good at doing social welfare. They’re good at blowing things up, however.


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