Liar Liar – Pants on Fire!

This video really pisses me off because it’s so damn dishonest. Neil deGrasse Tyson makes the case that the Permian Extinction was a Carbon Dioxide global warming event. Nothing can be farther from the truth.

Volcanoes spew huge amounts of Sulfur Dioxide and Hydrogen Sulfide – especially volcanoes that erupt over such a huge area and lasting hundreds of thousands of years like what happened with the Siberain Traps.

Yet in the video – no – it was the CO2 that caused global warming that caused a bacteria to grow and that released the hydrogen sulfate into the air, ignoring that volcanoes spew sulfur dioxideand hydrogen sulfide directly.. And he ignores that the global cooling effects of volcanoes are far stronger than the global warming of CO2. My response: Are you fucking kidding me?

This is on the same level as “the dinosaurs are extinct because of global warming from dinosaur farts”.

There is zero difference between this video and a Christian video defending Noah’s Ark, In fact I find this more offensive because Tyson is supposed to be speaking for the reality based world. I am so very very disappointed.

It’s just not OK for scientists to lie because when scientists lie – science stops! Shame on you and may Darwin have mercy on your soul.

Click to embiggen

I’m not denying that there is some global warming going on. As you can see from the above graph there is an upturn. Glaciers are actually melting. The question is – how bad is it and what do we really need to do about it?

  1. deowll says:

    The global warming crowd are a religious cult. They simply assumed that while global warming was occurring during the previous century it was all caused by CO2 and that all natural processes which had occurred in the past simply froze in place at neutral. All you have to do is check what the IPCC was saying at the time in its first report to know this is true.

    However enough science was done that it was clear what was going to happen in general terms if global warming was real. Not a blinking one of the modals is right and nothing predicted is occurring in the right amount at any level of the atmosphere. Thus we have the pause. Nobody under the age of 17 has lived during a time in which any meaningful amount of global warming occurred. That should have been the end of the story but not to a religious fanatic out to save the planet from humans. They walk by faith and have no regard for things proven.

  2. ECA says:

    Im sorry to say this, AGAIN..
    Its not just the CO2..That is giving a BASIC name to 1 problem.
    It dont matter if its, NAture or HUMAN.
    Humans are adding just as much as nature, and sometime WORSE products.

  3. Marc Perkel says:

    Did you know that the Big Bang that created the universe was caused by global warming?

    • Guyver says:

      Only because the cosmic chicken contributed to the cosmic egg’s warming trends.

  4. LibertyLover says:

    Mt. St. Helen spewed 2x more particulate matter into the atmosphere than every vehicle ever made up until that point.

  5. noname says:

    What is you dysfunction Marc Perkel, are you fucking kidding me!! What is your malfunction?

    Do you know the simple difference between a working hypotheses and an accepted conclusion? Are you that afraid, some highly educated and well-practiced, well-respected scientist might think differently than your cherished dogma!

    Are you turning into a NSA drone (people usually become the very things they hate), trying to suppress freedom of speech, particularly respected scientific research?

    Get some education please, for the good of everyone!

    Yes, the working HYPOTHESES presented is: Siberian C02 volcanic gas -> global warming -> oceans heat up, lose their oxygen -> nasty bacteria take over and burb S02 -> end of Permian mass extinction.

    The HYPOTHESIS Neil deGrasse Tyson is reporting is supported by computer models of the Siberian Traps eruption effects that lasted less than 1 million years along with mapping of the rocks deposited in Earth’s biggest “large igneous province” around the time of the mass extinction!

    Chemical signatures preserved in rocks show temperatures jumped 14.4 to 18 degrees Fahrenheit (8 to 10 degrees Celsius) just after the extinction and extreme warming seen around the globe close to this age. There is also the evidence of a major climatic change after the Permian die-off including sudden shifts in ratios of elements such as carbon and oxygen, found worldwide.

    Your comment “Volcanoes spew huge amounts of Sulfur Dioxide and Hydrogen Sulfide – especially volcanoes that erupt over such a huge area and lasting hundreds of thousands of years like what happened with the Siberian Traps.” is half the truth, if that even!! Some volcanoes give off 5X more C02 then S02, if not more.

    It’s thought the Siberian Traps’ magma punched through sedimentary rocks such as coals and carbonates that caused extra billions of tons of greenhouse gases and toxic metals into Earth’s atmosphere. Particles similar to fly ash from coal-fired power plants appear in lake sediments on Canada’s Ellesmere Island, downwind of Siberia in the Permian.

    But, being the ignorant bore you are, you ASS-UME Neil deGrasse Tyson is presenting the respected working hypotheses as an accepted conclusion. It is still being debated and refined as the scientific process usually does (a process you obviously have no clue about!). Indeed Neil deGrasse Tyson says more evidence is needed and that not all scientist agree!!

    Neil deGrasse Tyson is reporting on the investigation into a working hypothesis and you translate that into certainties and conclusions, what a duffus!!

    With the “good consumer” mind like yours, I bet I can manipulate and con you into buying a bridge to nowhere, with a nice 30 sec TV commercial!!

    Get some science education and try not to confuse the process with results!!

    • Marc Perkel says:

      This is not a HYPOTHESIS. It’s not even close. He knows better, he’s not that stupid. The Siberian Traps emitted billions of tons of sulfur dioxide and hydrogen sulfide directly into the air. If anything the CO2 kept us from becoming an ice ball planet during that period.

      Look at the temperature chart. Tyson’s global warming never occurred. He knows better.

      • noname says:

        “This is not a HYPOTHESIS”

        This science is well above your pay grade, how would you even know!

    • Tim says:

      That man stole Pluto. I don’t care what you say, it is because he is black.

  6. moss says:

    No surprises. One commenter who actually reads peer-reviewed science instead of pundits and anal-ysts.

    I studied the discussions led by the Max Planck Institute and responses in the broader scientific press – for two years – before coming to the same conclusions as the 95% and more of climatologists who agree about climate change and current predominant causes.

    Wasting time on the political rationale for cowardice-de-jeur is for dilettantes and today’s imitation conservatives. Sprout ostrich feathers and you’ll offer more utility, demonstrate more adult responsibility.

    • dusanmal says:

      Published, peer reviewed, not controversial:

      The very root of discrediting AGW crowd: Yes, there is global warming in last 200 or so yrs. NO, there is no danger whatever is causing it. Despite 200+ yrs of warming we are in 10% coldest years in last 10000 yrs. We are not even close to the average, never mind OMG heating. Just in these 10000 yrs temperature fluctuated by whatever caused it way more than recently. Change is natural and warming is expected after period of little ice age…
      It is scientifically dishonest to call this “crisis” whatever is causing it.
      As for what is causing it, similar ice core data supports for the past 250000 yrs and present dominance of water vapor in atmosphere interaction with high energy particles from space in determining Earth temperature. By orders of magnitude stronger impact than CO2. CO2 effect is whistling in a face of jet engine of water vapor/high energy particles impact. It is just so non-PC that CERN officially banned interpretation of its data supporting such conclusion in 2011. That a problem. Ideology rooted in scientific community so deep that it willingly perverts real scientific results.

  7. B. Dog says:

    Don’t get me started on cap and trade. There’s a lot of interesting science. On the one hand, fascist pigs want to dumb people down. On the other hand, a smattering of fun facts about volcanoes and dinosaurs and smelly gas is all slaves need to know about to scream “yes” to Ponzi schemes.

  8. dusanmal says:

    Now from a real scientist about real facts:
    1) Ideology and PC have infected scientific community and institutions. Powers that be control money we live on and “95% scientists agree” number is to be interpreted as “95% scientist do not dare stir the hornet nest and lose funding” when it comes to AGW.
    2) AGW proponents use slight of hand and half truths to deceive public. Examples: slight of hand 250000 Antarctic ice core data have been used by pro-AGW crowd to “show” hand-in-hand behavior of Earth temperature and CO2 levels. Looks plausible and excellent with 1pixel=1000 yrs. People believe. Zoom in… and in last 250000 yrs CO2 levels always LAGGED 400-700 yrs behind temperature rise or fall.; half truths – Al Gore “hockey stick” T graph is further exaggeration of NOAA published data for which one never hears crucial caveat – errors/intentionally introduced human fudge factors AS PUBLISHED IN THEIR PAPER are… 400%. Give me 400% error/fudge factor and I can show anything is true.
    3) Read science for yourself but be aware. Use only single source precise climate records. Ice cores are perfect case. Same for CO2 records.
    4) Do not go millions yrs back. Planet changed. 250000 -1Mil yrs back is long enough record of conditions that certainly apply today.
    5) Cross check with completely different science fields. Can we trust ice core data about medieval warming?- Archaeology – in 2006 ruins of large medieval settlement in Greenland emerged out of retreating ice…; Can we trust ice core on much warmer BC period? – Cultural anthropology – just in 2014 concluded that based on Ancient Greek customs temperatures there in January and February at the time must have been as much as 10 degrees Celsius higher than in modern Greece… (Both instances published, peer reviewed, not as climate-related but as of interest to their own fields).

    • Marc Perkel says:

      I tend to agree. The pier pressure to be in favor is overwhelming. The more I look into it however the more I find that makes it look like bullshit. If you look at the graph above it is more likely we could plunge into an ice age and maybe we want to increase CO2 to compensate for that.

      • MikeN says:

        ClimateGate e-mail, Briffa talks about pressure to present a neat and tidy picture.
        Michael Mann tried to get Briffa’s paper from being published.

        Simple point that too many climate scientists won’t concede:
        Mann’s code is available for Mann et al published in PNAS. In a comment, Steve McIntyre said that Mann used a proxy upside-down to get a hockey stick. The code is available, see for yourself who is right. Mann in his response, not only didn’t concede the point, but said the accusation is bizarre because regression algorithms are blind to sign. So one of the two is an idiot, either Mann for not knowing which way is up, or McIntyre for not understanding the first thing about reconstructions or regression algorithms. With your computer skills, should be straightforward for you to determine who’s the idiot.

  9. bobbo, are we Men of Science, or Devo says:

    This is fun…eh what?

    The Permian Mass Extinction. When I woke up this morning I thought it was an example of Global Warming that got so bad the Methane Hydrates barfed all over the place and killed off almost everything==like that Lake in Tanganyika did a few years back?

    So, thanks for this Post Marc as it got me to read a bit more about the whole event.

    First the video–yeah it does sound like Tyson supports the co2 as the cause of the event (at 7:10 and11:10) but I think a fair listening could also be that the larger context is as no name emphasizes just a telling of that other scientist’s theory. Sloppy at best.

    To the rescue: wiki:

    which clearly says “no one knows” and discusses the series of events that occurred, each terrible in their own right, cumulative, and disastrous in total.

    Gee Marc–we don’t get our science conclusions based off tv shows for the general public do we???

    What I found extremely telling was that the Permian Extinction Event took place over…………………………………….several million years. ((” Some evidence suggests that there were multiple extinction pulses[4] or that the extinction was spread out over a few million years, with a sharp peak in the last million years of the Permian.))

    You gotta be specific about which extinction(s) you are talking about: ocean or land, invertebrates, single cell, =and=

    extinction by anoxia, or by decalcification, or by co2 or temps.

    All the above various causes/results interact and took a long time.

    The CURRENT HUMAN CAUSED EXTINCTION may take place in the blink of the eye. See the difference?


    So I googled for a more considered Tyson opinion on the siberian traps permian extinction event. Haven’t found anything on point, more time is needed if we are going to form our own opinions based on what ONE MAN who is NOT a climate scientist has to say?

    The wiki says there is no consensus on what causes the extinction. Why don’t you science guys go with that?

    More subtlely==why don’t you go with what is apparent: that the Extinction was caused by multiple events?

    Yes, my friends, just another example of one of the great scourges of clear thinking: conflations. Taking a complicated issues and determining positions based upon one simple issue. You gotta be one kind of foolish to do that…..and it happens all so often.

    I need to read some more ….. (who doesn’t?)… but seems to me initially that whatever caused the Permian Extinction, or combo thereof, has almost nothing to say about the ALL THE CURRENT ISSUES of agw.

    If the PE was caused 100% by H2S or whatever, that says nothing about co2 doing the extinction NOW!!!!!

    Like balls in the air we have to juggle more than one?===or== drop all the other balls and focus on co2??? All to the same conclusion: co2 is a greenhouse gas and is past the tipping point of 350ppm which is enough to kill========KILL====== the hooman civilization as we know it.

    More conflation: confusing what kills mother earth with what the impact of 350ppm is talking about==yes, another mass extinction as the PE showed if it gets warm enough to release methane hydrates==its all about KILLING OUR CIVILIZATION. A different issue entirely and one that is totally fubared and mixed up by dusanmal.

    But bottom line if Marc hasn’t lost it is indeed: how bad is it and what should we be doing about it? Marc–you are flip flopping above. Should we be doing something….. or nothing????

    More conflation: you don’t like Cap and Trade solutions, so you argue that the issue isn’t real?

    More conflation: you don’t like the misplaced emphasis Tyson may have made in a video for High Schools so you say the impact of co2 is totally irrelevant?

    Can you spot the issues?

    Silly Hoomans.

    Dying in their own shit…. thats natural too.

  10. David says:

    NOTHING is more fun than watching basement bloggers, political activists, and ccorporate shills pretend to be scientist and constantly confuse basic facts and just make up stuff, all from the Obama is a secret Muslim crowd…or the cigarettes don’t cause cancer, our corporate funded scientists say so and have “proof”, just like the scientists (cough) from the coal companies have “proof” coal doesn’t harm the environment or oil is constantly created, not a fossil fuel. What a joke. Leave the science to PEER reviewed journals and just keep blogging about crazy conspiracy theories and insane topics. I’ll trust THE ACTUAL scientist, not the politicans, their media shills, or the corporate funded “scientists”.

  11. bobbo, are we Men of Science, or Devo says:

    Only a slight tangent that really should focus more on AGW as there have already been food riots in Mexico over the high cost of corn from USA going to ethanol production ((sic–an example of how to do green energy incorrectly!)):

    Again: its not the death of Earth, or Mankind, that is at risk. Its our civilization/culture that is at risk. If not DEAD already, and we just haven’t fallen over yet.

    Stay focused my friends, and when you need energy: think Green.

  12. Guyver says:

    He’s a very talented and likeable guy.

    Disappointing to see Neil deGrasse Tyson publicly take a political stance (like he has shown support for ObamaCare on the Bill Maher show).

    Now that he’s becoming a “rock star” of sorts, it seems he’s letting his celebrity status perhaps get to his head and perhaps feels that he needs to tell the world his view on politics as a scientist. I would just rather not know his politics and enjoy him for what he’s been known for.

  13. MikeN says:

    If you take out bristlecone pines, you are left with these charts. Can you see a hockey stick?

    Significance is that the bristlecones show abnormal growth, theorized as because of high amount of CO2. Without them, there is no hockey stick. So they built a hockey stick of temperatures, out of something that is not representing temperatures.

    Here is all 22 proxies used for the year 1400 step.

    Bristlecones, and a graph that Mann extended backwards so he could use it, you can see a flat line at the beginning. For the latter, the updated version is quite different.

  14. bobbo, are we Men of Science, or Devo says:

    Hey Marc: as always, could you explain a few things, to yourself, if not to the group:

    1. Tyson is a Liar. How do you know his private intention? Again, a pure textual analysis of the posted video can be read fairly in two opposite ways. Why the hostility…. just because in one view he said something you disagree with?

    2. Neil deGrasse Tyson makes the case that the Permian Extinction was a Carbon Dioxide global warming event. Nothing can be farther from the truth. /// The wiki says it was one of the pulses that created the Permian Extinction. That makes the statement close to/intertwined with the truth only in the worst case. Wouldn’t it be fair to ask Tyson given the millions of years and 4 main catalysts for the extinction why he chose to focus on the co2?

    3. And he ignores that the global cooling effects of volcanoes are far stronger than the global warming of CO2 /// A MOST INCONSISTENT ARGUMENT! If volcanoes cool the planet but the PE did exhibit increasing temps, and co2 is a greenhouse gas, then what your argument says is that co2 is so strong a heating gas that it even overcame the attempt of the volcanoes to cool us off. You argument SQUARELY defeats your position. And you repeat it:

    4. And he ignores that the global cooling effects of volcanoes are far stronger than the global warming of CO2. /// … AND YET THE EARTH HEATED UP. …….. and TODAY…. we have increasing co2 WITHOUT any volcanoes to counteract that effect. Again==you argue against your own position.

    5. Did you know that the Big Bang that created the universe was caused by global warming? /// What? Not responsive to anything previously said. Just an emotional outburst. Silly.

    6. and again: “If anything the CO2 kept us from becoming an ice ball planet during that period. /// EXACTLY….and there are no cooling volcanoes today….so what “should” happen if we dump co2 into the atmosphere??? greenhouse gas and all???

    And if you will keep in mind that co2 does heat up the earth as you argue 3 times and state twice, how is Tyson such a liar for identifying it as the cause of the PE when mostly quoting some other guy? You know—sloppy editing. Whatever… its not “the farthest thing from the truth” I can think of. Why… just look at Point No 5 above?

    7. If you look at the graph above it is more likely we could plunge into an ice age and maybe we want to increase CO2 to compensate for that. /// Where are you looking, what are you interpolating to get that gem?


  15. bobbo, are we Men of Science, or Devo says:

    I’ve tired of googling for Tyson and the PE, so I’ll stop with this transcript of Ep 2 of the New Cosmos where the PE is “updated.”

    Seems to be somewhat of a semantical argument: did co2 kill off all the life, or was it the volcanoes that caused the co2 to be emitted?

    Where in a “chain” of causation do you pick ONE cause rather than just rely on the chain? I don’t get it.

    Along the way though, I was informed, if not reminded, why there is not more attention paid to methane pollution…and that is while it is 20x (sic–whatever) times more greenhouse gassy, it also is removed from the atmosphere in 10 years (or was it 20?) and does not hang around for 50K years like co2 does. Nice to have that niggle taken care of.

    So….the PE can fairly be thought of as co2 killing most species on land and sea and was triggered by volcanoes. TODAY the issue is that the same co2 rise is being triggered by hoomans. Different trigger===same result.

    Hey—turns out, the more you know, the more you know. You know?

    • bobbo, are we Men of Science, or Devo says:

      Ha, ha….rereading my own FANTASTIC post…I’m reminded of the issue I read several version of and tangentially glanced off above: the PE took MILLIONS OF YEARS by some reviews, and only 60K more or less in other views, ALL DEPENDING on what you label the actual extinction ===>as there were (evidently?) about 4 different main extinction events (pulses??) that all together make up the PE.

      So—you actually have to “know” what you are talking about to see how easily the subject is to misconstrue.

      Graphing and charting is NOT PROOF–only correlations. Good to remind ourselves of that everytime we look at charts. The whole co2 follows temp rise is highly illustrative of this fallacy.

      So…..again semantics….is a condition that exists for millions of years like the extensive lava flows fairly thought of as a “cause” of anything especially when compared to another condition that rises and as its effects in only 10K’s of years? Thats a nice epistemological question one must tease through.

      And again===what nature took millions or 10K’s of years to do….”the best science available” says we are doing it to ourselves in a matter of several 100’s of years.

      See the difference?

  16. Peppeddu says:

    Correlation does not imply causation.

    Sounds like a case for the No Agenda team. Has something else taken place behind the scene that has caused Neil deGrasse Tyson to make this … “documentary”?

  17. MikeN says:

    Posts like these will cause this website to get banned. Obama is handing control of the internet away, and soon there will be calls to ban sites that post hateful speech. Reddit already bans skeptical comments on global warming, including in its forum with Michael Mann ‘ask me almost anything’ which specifically said ‘hard questions are OK.’

  18. Evan says:

    When I was university studying electrical engineering I would visit this web site to check out some interesting posts. I remember very well seeing Bobbo and others arguing in the comment section on most articles.

    This was 5 years ago. Still you folks are at it in the comments, unbelievable.

    • bobbo, are we Men of Science, or Devo says:

      Evan, what is presented before your own eyes that is unbelievable?

      That there is a web based community of like minded people?

      I read about THAT in People Magazine when I was in University. Maybe you need a minor in sociology?

      There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
      Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
      – Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio

      ….but…. at least you didn’t call me a dipshit with no life… as accurate as that might be as well?

  19. Cgpnz says:

    I wonder if the cooling effect of mass volancos is false.
    The ash falls out over months not years.

    The co2 could well become good percentage of the atmosphere leading to a reducing atmosphere hence the mass extinction.

    Don’t call theories you have no means to counter fraud.

    • bobbo, are we Men of Science, or Devo says:

      I wonder if the cooling effect of mass volancos is false. /// Like most of the science–its “complicated.” Volcanoes put out particulate which does fall to ground in a few months. Ligther particulate stays up for a few years. BUT the major climate factor of volcanoes I think is sulfur emissions that combine with water vapor to form sulfuric acid which with sulfur reflects sunlight thereby cooling the earth. Volcanoes also put out methane, that gets oxidized in about 10 years, remains about constant, and is not considered a variable of consequence. Volcanoes also put out co2 that takes 50K years to cycle out. Different volcanoes put out different mixes of gas and particles. Undersea volcanoes also have been shown NOT to heat the ocean. Not enough of them. Also of note: “real” scientists can determine what the source of co2 is… it from burning coal and oil or is it from volcanoes. Thats why there is a consensus about AGW.

      The co2 could well become good percentage of the atmosphere leading to a reducing atmosphere hence the mass extinction. /// What is a reducing atmosphere? But yes…4 of the 5 mass extinctions have been linked to atmospheric/water/earth warming by co2, previously by natural processes taking 1000’s if not millions of years in fluctuation. currently taking place by MAN in only a few 100’s of years.

      Don’t call theories you have no means to counter fraud. /// Again, missing a few words to express a competent idea, but yes and no depending.

      Ain’t SCIENCE grand? And in THIS CASE–its already written the destruction of our modern civilization. All that is wanting is the steady drip of the hour glass.

      Kinda a bummer.

  20. Seamus says:

    Can’t we all just agree…. that the new Cosmos series sucks? Yes it’s not good that we have a noted scientist lying to us. Question: where does an atheist go for absolution anyway?

    • bobbo, are we Men of Science, or Devo says:

      Can’t we all just agree…./// Not on anything “important.”

      that the new Cosmos series sucks? /// No one has said or suggested that. You imply it sucks because Tyson is lying to the public?

      Yes it’s not good that we have a noted scientist lying to us. /// What is Tyson lying about? AGW is covered above so surely you aren’t just repeating the Mantra without addressing the issue at all….are you?

      Question: where does an atheist go for absolution anyway? /// By definition, an atheist cannot sin so absolution is a nonsequitor. For those issues that come close to what you might be referring to, an atheist only has to self evaluate the options and try something different. Like you should on this idiot post of yours.

      Absolve yourself. GO======>

    • Captain Obvious says:

      Where does an atheist go for absolution? It wouldn’t be to an crusty old pedophile in a dress.

  21. Mr Ed says:

    Marc, you are the liar and you know better. Shame!

  22. I drop a comment when I especially enjoy a article on a site or if I have something to valuable to contribute to the discussion. It’s triggered by the passion communicated in the post I looked at. And after this article %BLOG_TITLE%. I was moved enough to leave a comment 🙂 I do have 2 questions for you if you usually do not mind. Is it simply me or does it give the impression like some of these responses look as if they are left by brain dead people? 😛 And, if you are writing on additional sites, I’d like to keep up with you. Would you make a list every one of all your social sites like your twitter feed, Facebook page or linkedin profile?|

  23. deowll says:

    I think we need to get a good nights sleep. If the usual climate cycle is in play we may be in for a 30 yr cooling trend.


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