On a clear day like this, you can almost see… something!

This computer model says it’s China’s fault. Other computer models say it’s global warming/climate change. Where’s that Watson computer from Jeopardy to host a battle of the computer models and sort this out?

China’s air pollution could be intensifying storms over the Pacific Ocean and altering weather patterns in North America, according to scientists in the US. A team from Texas, California and Washington state has found that pollution from Asia, much of it arising in China, is leading to more intense cyclones, increased precipitation and more warm air in the mid-Pacific moving towards the north pole.

According to the team’s findings, which were released on Monday in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, these changes could ultimately contribute to erratic weather in the US.



  1. dave m brewer says:

    The above photo won’t load…

  2. noname says:

    Of course it’s not human-caused climate change! It’s all natural, just like pink slime is and it’s good for U.S.!

    Let’s not go making consumers feel “guilty” or “bad”! It’s not good for business. America is business and “What`s good for Business is good for America”!

    Make GWB proud and be that good American, drive->shop->drive->shop….!!!

    • dusanmal says:

      Perfect example of people (on both sides of the issue!) who mix “climate” and “weather”.
      If you want to speak about climate change you must follow over hundreds and thousands of years. One cold or warm winter, one strong or weak tornado or hurricane season, even several of them – are weather, not climate. In between weather scale and climate scale are normal, somewhat periodic general weather patterns measured in decades (El Nino is just the most famous of those.
      And in the last sentence is a part of proof that current couple years of weak tornado seasons and increasingly cold winters and say, very dry California and South… are part of a well known and documented cycle. So much so that meteorologist were predicting what is happening a year ago when weak tornado season started. Extremely cold US Winter have been predicted well in advance. Not fitting data backward to prove your favorite theory but advance prediction from the known past.
      Key for current weather pattern is cyclical natural cooling of the Pacific. Nothing to do with human activity, climate change be it warming or cooling. Observed many times in the past with same consequences.
      Above article was just seeking for some human activity that can be blamed somewhat plausibly. But, if cycle repeats itself over decades and hundreds of years, scientifically observed – why now by human acts?
      Finally, if climate (and weather) would stop changing – I’d be worried. Non-changing climate is unnatural …

      • sl0j0n says:

        Hello, “dusanmal”.
        BRILLIANT!
        WONDERFUL!
        EXCEPTIONAL!
        Too bad there ain’t more like you.
        Have a GREAT day, Neighbor!

  3. bobbo, are we Men of Science, or Devo says:

    Good Unc Dave: your first heading is not clear to me. At least one missing modifier on top of being sarcastic?==good luck.

    The import that pollution can alter weather? Yea verily! But the article is way to iffy. Everything is related to everything else is all it amounts to. Not a definite statement of causation to be found.

    You know what “scientists” do say is causation? Thats right: AGW thats going to dramatically change weather in the all too near future of Now + 100 years. I know: also all too easy to ignore.

    There is a continuum though:

    1. Man of Science==AGW is here now.
    2. Know Nothings==We need more studies
    3. Science Deniers==It was cold in my backyard yesterday.
    4. Paid Shills==CO2 is natural and good for plants.

    Silly Hoomans.

    • MikeN says:

      Yours is a religious statement. Studies that agree with what I want are good, studies that don’t say what I want are iffy.

      • bobbo, are we Men of Science, or Devo says:

        Poor old Micky. Can’t even apply your own argument.

        This study is PRO reducing co2 pollution, aka AGW, aka our need to get on the green energy route to salvation……YET…. I called it iffy.

        See how that works?

        Are you and Pedro riding side saddle together these days?

        ………………Unc Dave: after a good nights rest, the heading makes more sense to me… or did you add the question mark? Very clever to construct a concomitant casual connection?

        I will dither: ……….. because ……….. I find even myself while in the full grip of AGW, still don’t come to grips with its import. Which is: we are all doomed. The oceans will rise destroying much of our infrastructure in time frames that our culture cannot adapt to. Population levels will crumble.

        “Past the tipping point.” //// Used to be 350 ppm, current levels are now 400 increasinly rapidly going to 450 and above.

        IF YOU ACCEPT SCIENCE…its all going to happen now. Sooner rather than later as we are all still unable to come to grips with the SCIENCE of the matter.

        Very telling that like yeast in a wine bottle, the human civilization is going to crash NOT because of food shortages, or disease, but we are going to collapse because of our own shit. Very Interestingly, not the organic shit from covering the planet in monoculture crops and eating that, no, the waste product of creating the energy we need to grow those crops, move them, package them … and all related activities of our culture.

        Whats sad is that such an end could have been prevented had we accepted the SCIENCE that was self evident years before the tipping point was reached….. but we are but animals. Emotional/Religious==not SCIENCE. Is that a twist on the sin of Pride/Hubris?? I think so.

        Not you and me. Maybe our kiddies will be engaged in fulltime climate change correction…but I think our grand kiddies will be burying the bodies.

        Beer and Waffles.

  4. davephillips says:

    We ship our junk to China and they convert it to polluted air and blow it back. If we want to limit CO2 just stop breathing.

  5. Duh-mmy says:

    … so be sure and have more kids. Because that’s what VIRUSES and things like CANCER do — they MULTIPLY and cause (polluting) harm to the host.

  6. Axl says:

    China? I though it was Putins fault…

  7. MikeN says:

    Uncle Dave, that is foolish. Everything is because of climate change, particularly CO2! Now repent, or Michael Mann might sue you as well.

  8. MikeN says:

    Where are these more intense cyclones? According to the IPCC SREX, there is no evidence of increasing hurricanes, either number or intensity, to date. Chinese pollution melting the Arctic has been concluded before, particularly the black soot.

    The bad winter caused by global warming hasn’t been reached by any computer models, just alarmists unwilling to concede a point.

  9. B. Dog says:

    I kinda miss the blue skies of my youth. The sky is milky now. That don’t mean that I want to hurl our nation’s youth at the Chiners in a meaningless, suicidal land war. Still…

  10. bobbo, are we Men of Science, or Devo says:

    MikeN says:
    4/17/2014 at 6:58 am

    Where are these more intense cyclones? According to the IPCC SREX, there is no evidence of increasing hurricanes, either number or intensity, to date. //// Yes…. the key is: “to date.” What is it about an early warning about effects to take place 100 years from now do you think is invalidated because its not happening now? You can’t be more head up your ass than this comment.

    Chinese pollution melting the Arctic has been concluded before, particularly the black soot. /// Yes, and that IS HAPPENING NOW…. so again… what is it about what your own lying eyes can see that you don’t accept?

    The bad winter caused by global warming hasn’t been reached by any computer models, just alarmists unwilling to concede a point. /// Bad winters–ie weather extremes is what the models predict. Colder winters, warmer summers while they average out to steady increasing warmth. Thats why they wanted to change the Label from Global Warming to Climate Change because idiot shills like yourself would use the weather in their own backyard as proof against the average.

    You so stupid. If God were just he make the physics so that idiots like you bred out…. but god is busy elsewhere.

    Silly Hoomans. ITS SCIENCE!!!! Check your pulse.

    • ± says:

      ****Thats why they wanted to change the Label from Global Warming to Climate Change because idiot shills like yourself would use the weather in their own backyard as proof against the average.****

      Wrong. Since there is a meaningful trend that could be the beginning of global cooling, changing the terminology is a way the AGW liars can say they were right all along no matter what happens.

      [no supercilious palaver here]

      • bobbo, are we Men of Science, or Devo says:

        you LIE!

        Bet I can find a link for my statement.

        Bet you can’t for yours.

        (Lies…. but the universe bends towards the truth. Sadly, we are all in the same one boat on this issue though. Some not rowing, others drilling holes in the bottom.)

        The Horror!

          • bobbo, are we Men of Science, or Devo says:

            Heh, heh. Well ±, what do you think this means?

            The article consistent with my link says “worldwide, 2012 was among the 10 warmest years on record.”

            ………..and you think this is negated by this BLOGGER pointing out that “the report “fails to mention [2012] was one of the coolest of the decade, and thus confirms the cooling trend,”

            So–the decade was the warmest in recent 100’s of years but it was in rank order one of the coolest in 10 years?

            BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.

            You have to want to be abused to fall for such manipulation as that.

            Why do you want to be abused P/M?

          • ± says:

            ***Why do you want to be abused P/M?***

            Religion is when NO AMOUNT OF CONTRARY EVIDENCE is acceptable. So I wasn’t trying to change your mind since you have shown countless times that this is your religion. Rather, I was assuming you would respond as you did. You abuse yourself (from a thinking person’s point of view).

            There is no conclusive objective evidence that ‘climate change’ is man made. It could be tho. We don’t know yet.

          • Tim says:

            And in the end times, +, will man worship the creature and not the creator… I can’t remember the rest of that movie.

          • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and junior history buff says:

            Post Menapausal: this forum is repleat with my agreement that there is no conclusive evidence re AGW. Nor is there “proof.”

            What I have always posted is that AGW and the models is simply: “The Best Evidence Available.”

            Total fail on your part: all around.

            Your link was for, and used by, idiots.

            There is more than proof: there are MEASUREMENTS of sea level rise, average temperatures, co2 PPM, etc.

            Requires MAGICAL THINKING to avoid the natural consequences of such evidence.

            The only real question twice posed now is: PM==why do you abuse yourself so?

            Silly Hooman.

          • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and junior history buff says:

            Timmmmmay—thats a good line. Directly from the Bible I think. Some kind of sin what with god being jealous and all.

          • Bill Gates says:

            in the last days will one man borrow anothers operating system and c-compiler and then just copy it and give it to their friends and shit. fuck those guys.

  11. bobbo, are we Men of Science, or Devo says:

    By coinkeydink:

    http://rollingstone.com/politics/news/global-warmings-terrifying-new-math-20120719

    1. June broke or tied 3,215 high-temperature records across the United States.

    2. warmest May on record for the Northern Hemisphere

    3. the 327th consecutive month in which the temperature of the entire globe exceeded the 20th-century average,

    …………………………….. Science ……………………………………

  12. Michael says:

    The thesis is that climate change is being caused by global pollution. China is on the globe. What was your question?

  13. Captain Obvious says:

    A movie plot:

    97% of the world’s scientists secretly create a fake climate crisis but are thwarted by a plucky band of billionaires and oil companies.

  14. bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and junior history buff says:

    Timmmay completely irrelevantly says:
    4/18/2014 at 2:34 pm

    Well, bobbo; Why don’t you lobby congress for a war on poor people? /// Why lobby to fight a war that has already been won? You don’t make any sense!

    Umm.. did they find that plane yet? /// Malay 370? Nope. Already spent 250MM or will spend or whatever??? Heh, heh. I gotta wonder about the cost/benefit ratio there. Planes crash. When the human element is clearly mostly at play, nothing to learn really. A dollar spent, is a dollar wasted.

    Beer and Waffles.

    • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and junior history buff says:

      Oh crap. I did want to compliment Capt Obvious on his excellent movie plot. Do you live in LA Capt?

  15. bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and junior history buff says:

    Tim engagingly says:
    4/18/2014 at 3:10 pm

    bobbo, people need to be taught about this *technology*, I think.

    terra preta
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_preta

    That’s where the carbon needs to go. If only people would spend more time growing productive soil instead of coddling a bunch of life-sapping shit and lawnboys only to liberally water with that gene–pool-altering, mutagenic FuckUp(tm). /// I’ve read about charcoal in the soil before and didn’t give it much credibility thinking it would be coverted to gaseous co2 fairly quickly. Your link says I am wrong on that. Good news.

    I was thinking more of carbon chains that can be made from co2 waste products and turned into building bricks, concrete, plastics, road tar, and such==heck even new report on making it into aviation fuel. Again, for what the human race is faced with is the issue of scaling up and the time frame. AKA==our grandkiddies are doomed.

    That said, I may be confusing/conflating too many issues. What WILL HAPPEN when the sea level comes up 15 feet over the course of 50 years 100 years from now? I think maybe civilization can take that hit and move uphill. I conflated that with idea that if the ocean comes up 15 feet we will also be hit with co2 offgasing from frozen methane fields, feeding bacteria that turn that into HS2 and a global poisoning and die off. Those are two separate events. Can’t say how closely related they are. I fear….. BOTH in our futures.

    But I HATE THE SIN of conflation. Thinking hominids should avoid.

    • Tim says:

      “”I was thinking more of carbon chains that can be made from co2 waste products and turned into building bricks, concrete, plastics, road tar, and such==heck even new report on making it into aviation fuel.

      Hmm. That’s what the hemp was for {cellulose/methanol}? All this good and growing soil and I guess I’ll just sit around and plan how heartbleed can facilitate the giving of herpes to dea, stack, various other odorous ‘drug’ warriors just because thats how the cookie crumbles. And maybe grow some thyme for growndcover.

      • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and junior history buff says:

        Good catch. It doesn’t have to be all new high tech. Some kind of plant fiber can obviously be chopped up to replace pebbles or whatever. I think I read about such a technique, but I don’t want to be guilty of log rolling.

        Certainly: all of the above will have to be maximized if we are to have any corrective effect of burning all the carbon we will have to do for years to come before green energy can take over.

        Adjust your external scuba tank regulator…….. the sea, it be rising.

    • Tim says:

      “”…if the ocean comes up 15 feet we will also be hit with co2 offgasing from frozen methane fields, feeding bacteria that turn that into HS2 and a global poisoning and die off.

      Wow. That’s pretty grim. You may be right, cats and dogs are already sleeping together after-all.

      Still, I just bet that the oceans were up over 300 ft back then — I love showing people all the little shells falling out of the sedimentary rocks that make the caves 600 ft asl around here.

      After the *dying* to. You can see the diversity and ‘bigness’ of fossils below a distinct line and only diatomatic small stuff above. Both of these are observed far above today’s current sea level.

      • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and junior history buff says:

        Hey Timmmy — Beer and Waffles. There is a fancy word I’ve been trying to remember for 5 years now about a sequence that is out of order: I had two waffles for breakfast, more than two beers so far for dinner. ((Note to bobbo: its Waffles and Beer!))

        One of my feeds showed Dogs, Cats, and a Rat on the streets of LA. Living in harmony. Easy to stage when everyone is well fed. Otherwise: the rat is first to go.

        Yeah—I don’t know what the fuck you mean to mean by reference to other ages with other stimuli and effects. …… and I bet YOU don’t either. Confused by the words involved. Hah, hah.

        All that shit eons ago took MILLIONS OF YEARS TO OCCUR. The whole issue today is that being MAN MADE: ITS going to happen over 1-2-3 hundred years.

        See the difference? Millions compared to 100’s/.

        Its Math.

        Lets see: Beer for Dinner. I’m ready for desert: oh my: More Beer.

        See the difference????….. but I dither.

        • Tim says:

          Well, I don’t think the word you’re looking for would be ‘anachronism’ as that would be things out of place with respect to their proper time.

          Good point, anyways. Yes. Millions of years. I should hope humanity is out in microgravity/ zero g by then — Making just all kinds of perfect, puffy planets. I suppose evil rich people will make their planets so that some hidden flaw in the orbital path causes them to collide with the good planets in a few hundred light years…

          Btw, that little girl asking if dog cat rat were ‘attached to eachother’ was pretty spot on — They could have been stapled at one paw or electrostatically attracted by the ionizing action of carefully applied smokeless cigarette modules. It’s probably hidden in special kevlar claw-gripper vest the dog is wearing.

          • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and junior history buff says:

            The example given when I saw the word was “The soldier saddled his horse, rode away, and blew his bugle.” The Correct order would be that riding away would be the last item of the list depending on what the soldier actually did.

            I remember it clearly because I thought a better example of missed order would be that the “Soldier saddled his bugle, blew his horse, and rode away.” …. but that is probably an example of something else. It is informative that all these word/idea transposition do all have specific words for them. Fun to read from time to time.

          • Tim says:

            Hmm. {mis-} analepsis/prolepsis/diegesis/narration?

            There is some funky event-related words here:
            http://cla.purdue.edu/english/theory/narratology/terms/narrativetermsmainframe.html

          • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and junior history buff says:

            Thanks for your help. I looked again for about 30 minutes until I got a headache.

            Its one of those words you have to know in order to find? I was getting real close a few times reviewing articles on: syntax and sequences regarding grammar. Close but no banana.

            I know its out there. But how many hours is such a pursuit worth when I anyone has to say is: HEY–those independent phrases are causing a ripple in the time/space continuum!

            Words. Do they help anyone think, or just get in the way?===or does it just depend?

          • Tim says:

            one last stab at it then. {I’m sorry; I thought I’d posted this already..}

            “”Nonlinear narrative, disjointed narrative or disrupted narrative is a narrative technique, … , where events are portrayed, for example out of chronological order, or in other ways where the narrative does not follow the direct causality pattern of the events featured, …

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonlinear_narrative

            like this — ** Well, here I am just scurrying along for my life through the sewers of sadness, and sediton, and the shame of Boston Strong. Also, I’m in the wrong shaft of the underground. It’s pretty true, after all, that people shouldn’t flush their turtles, alligators, and budgies… but, this is all after my quinoa exploded all over Boylston Street, one fine April morn…

  16. orchidcup says:

    The population of China is equivalent to the population of North America, South America, Australia, New Zealand, and all of Western Europe — combined.

    In 2010, 674 million Chinese people were classified as rural — a number, though no longer growing, is still more than twice as great as the population of any other country in the world besides China and India.

    There are over 160 cities in China with a population over one million people. In the United States, there are nine.

    These days, China’s problem isn’t that there are too many people or too few, but rather that there are too many boys being born for every girl, and that the population is too old.

    Compared to China with 1.34 billion residents, followed by India with 1.19 billion, the United States is a distant third with 311.1 million people.

    If anyone is convinced that humans contribute the most to climate change, it follows that China and India must take the lead in reducing mankind’s carbon footprint.

    Don’t hold your breath.

    • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and junior history buff says:

      A quibble: its not the population of China and India that creates their carbon footprint but rather that these countries by intent and accident have become the MANUFACTURING centers for the less polluting/more consuming WEST. Of course, its a mix of the two.

      Because China is so large, I think they are installing more SOLAR/green energy production units while at the same time building more coal power plants per week than the rest of the world. They be growing. Ha, ha. All those stiff chinese dicks with no where to plunge. Image in 10 years: ads on Google for American Wives to emmigrate to China…. and India.

      HORRRRRRRORS!!!

      Its the market place. What do you think is going to happen?==eh??

      All gonna die from co2 poisoning anyway. Don’t you get it????? Gonna get it anyway. Reality is like that.

      Silly Hoomans.

      • orchidcup says:

        All those stiff chinese dicks with no where to plunge. Image in 10 years: ads on Google for American Wives to emmigrate to China…. and India.

        There is your first business idea: Introduce qualified marriage candidates to qualified Chinese and Indian businessmen and take a finder’s fee from both ends of the transaction.

        With a little luck, you may rise to the top 10%.

        Imagine what a headache you would have, aside from the hangovers.

        The thought makes me shudder.

        • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and junior history buff says:

          I’ve got 2-3 candidates I could ship today!

          ((Limited Time: order two and get 50% off shipping and handling on third purchase.))

          • Hank, your yahoo/alibaba liason says:

            They will, of course, need a stamp of FDA certification… If, that is a problem????……..

    • Captain Obvious says:

      China produces about 23% of world’s greenhouse gases, the US 19%, and India 6%.

      In fairness, US CO2 has been relatively flat while Asia has been growing. Mainly you can thank California for enforcing emission standards (industrial and consumer) on the rest of the US. Also declining industrial output has helped.

      The reality is that the US has the economic reach to enforce new standards on the rest of the world.


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