The U.S. government’s no-fly list banning people accused of links to terrorism from commercial flights violates their constitutional rights because it gives them no meaningful way to contest that decision, a federal judge ruled on Tuesday.

U.S. District Judge Anna Brown, ruling on a lawsuit filed in federal court in Oregon by 13 Muslim Americans who were branded with the no-fly status, ordered the government to come up with new procedures that allow people on the no-fly list to challenge that designation.

“The court concludes international travel is not a mere convenience or luxury in this modern world. Indeed, for many international travel is a necessary aspect of liberties sacred to members of a free society,” Brown wrote in her 65-page ruling.

  1. andrew j says:

    That ruling is BS, because they can always take a boat.

    • Cap'n Kangaroo says:

      “The decision hands a major victory to the 13 plaintiffs – four of them veterans of the U.S. military – who deny they have links to terrorism and say they only learned of their no-fly status when they arrived at an airport and were blocked from boarding a flight.”

      Good enough to serve in the military, but we just don’t trust them on a flight to Canada.

    • Phydeau says:

      Andrew, did you not read even the summary on the Dvorak blog?

      “The court concludes international travel is not a mere convenience or luxury in this modern world. Indeed, for many international travel is a necessary aspect of liberties sacred to members of a free society,” Brown wrote in her 65-page ruling.

      • Tim says:

        If I’m remembering this wrongly then that only means that the world has been persnickkered for longer than I’ve been around; But, I thought the original reason for arguing against explicitely including a ‘right to travel’ in that Buddha-botflied shred of parchment or its’ addendums and erratas was so that the various branches of government wouldn’t be able to have venue to come along and fuck with such a long-held, sacred right {at least, Magna Carta} later.

  2. Stay Home says:

    “The court concludes international travel is not a mere convenience or luxury in this modern world.”

    Sure it’s a luxury. No one NEEDS to travel internationally. They WANT to travel because they can afford it, or because somebody else is picking up the tab.

    With email, telephones, and telepresence, why is it so important that someone’s sorry ass must show up in-person?

    Besides, they import foreign germs and critters that wreck eco-havoc. Worse yet, some show up and never leave.

  3. RR1 says:

    100% behind the judge. The can “always take a boat” statement is bull pucky. You have a constitutional right to travel. Saying I’m not allowed to fly and must take a boat when others are not restricted in the same way constitutes a hindrance on my constitutional right to travel.

    Its kind of like saying your constitutional right to speak freely, like your post, would still be ok if the government suddenly decided “you” and just “you” were only allowed to post to this site via snail mail without the due process right to challenge the decision.

    • Cap'n Kangaroo says:

      And you were not informed of the government’s hindrance until you tried posting something.

  4. orchidcup says:

    We have a Constitution?

    • Cap'n Kangaroo says:

      Yes we do, but only when the government lawyers decide it doesn’t conflict with National Security.

    • noname says:

      It’s not special, it’s a major east-west street in Washington, D.C.; a corrupt city government uses to generate traffic violation revenue and Police use it for citizenry target practice and public executions!

      Before 9/11/01, (BC; before crash) American could engaged and contemplated the Constitution deeper significance, but Congress gang raped it and destroyed its American meaning!

    • reader says:


      June 23, Los Angeles Times – (California) Hypnotist Bandit strikes in Manhattan Beach, fourth bank in a month. Police in Los Angeles linked a suspect known as the “Hypnotist Bandit” to the June 20 robbery of a Bank of America branch in Manhattan Beach, making it the fourth robbery connected to the suspect. …

      Moo are getting sleepy…moo are getting sleepy.

      • Tim says:

        They’re both grass-fed. They’re both gonna push back better if you get them up against a cliff first…And maybe stick their legs into your swat team jack boots.

  5. bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and junior culture critic says:

    I wonder how many numbnuts who disagree with this decision also protect their rights by having 3 or more guns at home, if not strapped at all times at well?

    A well informed citizenry is necessary to a functioning democracy.

    Silly ignorant self destructive, and of everything else, gun nuts.

    • dusanmal says:

      If you were in any contact with people who protect their home and exercise their Constitutional rights regarding guns you’d realize that by principles they are for ALL Constitutional rights, strictly and without Governmental interpretations. Including general freedom that assumes freedom of movement and right to due process which includes ability to meaningfully contest Governmental “judging”. You’ll find people who want Government so small and weak that it can’t even execute ideas banning and obstructing travel in gun owners circles. You won’t find Progressives in gun owner circles. Within Progressives (and their Communist and Fascist historical offshoots) you’ll find want to distort every Constitutional right to the current taste and ideology. Travel bans and “papers” are customs of Nazis and Communists. Same as drone killing without due process…

      • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and junior culture critic says:

        Good Morning Duce!
        ………♫…. Good Morning to You……

        1. The first “right” is to life.
        2. All rights must be balanced against each other and exercised in less than absolute ways because like the Epicurus Conundrum certain rights conflict with one another.
        3. The first gubment of the USA FAILED because it was too small. Want a small gubment?==>Welcome to your new invading force who thanks you for being so ignorant and naive. Why do you want to be ruled by China acting thru its proxy Mexico?

        The point as you have missed it: gun rights don’t protect against constitutional violations.

        ………….but you do have the right to be ignorant and self destructive and to vote that way. Let the majority have its way and not be violated by our bought and paid for Congress.

  6. Eideard says:

    Overdue by decades. Feds have been using same scumbag rationale since the start of the unending Cold War. Only the names and places are changed – to protect the paranoid.

  7. Mr Anderson says:

    Now you’ll just be ‘screened’ until the plane has left, because you’re guilty until they decide otherwise without any due process.

  8. Phydeau says:

    It’s fine to have a no-fly list, just give the people on it a process to dispute their inclusion on it. Sounds like it wasn’t thought through when it was first instituted.

  9. MikeN says:

    Also ruled that cell phones cannot be searched without a warrant.

  10. spsffan says:

    Nothing wrong with a no-fly list, just that it should be created and maintained by the airlines, not the government.

    Air Spsffan won’t allow your terrorist ass on my plane. We care about the safety of our passengers and crew.

    Why don’t you try Jihad Airlines?

    • LibertyLover says:


    • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and junior culture critic says:

      Incorrect. Always a “tell” when LL agrees with you.

      FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDOM–leaving people alone. WHEN your rights are violated, doesn’t matter if its the guberment or BIG CORP.

      You first agree with the court: nothing wrong with a no fly list===then you go total corporate shill and suggest its BIG CORP that should do it???

      …………….now….. would that be with or without a right to review and protest your name on the list?

      ………..Can you be relevant, informed, love liberty–at all?

      • Tim says:

        You just say that because you’re a black inuit. Unloved by all, even seals slink away from you like weasels making a little ‘help help’ squauck. I’ve got a couple widescreens if you want to come over and pull a Saul. Bring yur friend, reader, and your own cat, please.

        it’ll be something

  11. MikeN says:

    This is strange. Air travel is something that the Obama Administration and the Greenies wish to restrict for the little people. Blaming ‘climate change’ as a means to make air travel more expensive is part of the plan. No fly list with even more people on it should be their goal.

    • MikeN says:

      Basically you submit you travel plans for approval to the government, private charters excepted. Kind of like how you have to get permission to remove the air bags on your car.

      • Tim says:

        *air bags* do sound so much ‘softer’ than *car bombs*. Get an experienced scientist like bobbo to disarm them cheap for you…

      • Tim says:

        that royal skank in france had the side impact airbag explode with such force that the drivers’ head imploded the bodyguards’ skull…and then they contacted the 13’th pillar.

        Mercades quietly recalled all the side-impact ‘curtain’ air bag cars…

  12. reader says:

    Driving is not a right. They can take it away. Like George Carlin said, you have no rights. The politicians are there to make it look like you have choices. You don’t. You have owners and they own the airports, all the land and the skies. They own you. If it was a right they could not take it away. You have privileges and if you have private aircraft, f–k them. Good luck flying cattle class. Wear a bell around your neck.

    • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and junior culture critic says:

      Reader—whats wrong with you? Can you tell shit from shinola??? If so….. why don’t you start using that skill, smell set?

      You post “you don’t have rights” in the teeth of a SCOTUS that ruled we do.

      Apply the law of international plane flights to driving a car: the gubment or some security agency cannot put your name on a “Don’t Rent Car” list without you having the right to petition and review.

      …………….and the point for you to recognize is……………..

      When you are so obviously fubar about this issue…..why even read your other tangents?

      ………………………..its called: “credibility.” Something the right wingers piss away like watered down beer.

      • reader says:

        “As I said before and will now say again, the controlling factor,
        the root cause, of risk is dependence, particularly dependence on
        the expectation of stable system state. Yet the more technologic the
        society becomes, the greater the dynamic range of possible failures.
        When you live in a cave, starvation, predators, disease, and lightning
        are about the full range of failures that end life as you know it
        and you are well familiar with each of them. When you live in a
        technologic society where everybody and everything is optimized in
        some way akin to just-in-time delivery, the dynamic range of failures
        is incomprehensibly larger and largely incomprehensible. The wider
        the dynamic range of failure, the more prevention is the watchword.
        Cadres of people charged with defending masses of other people must
        focus on prevention, and prevention is all about proving negatives.
        Therefore, and inescapably so, there is only one conclusion: as
        technologic society grows more interconnected, it becomes more
        interdependent within itself. As society becomes more interdependent
        within itself, the more it must rely on prediction based on data
        collected in broad ways, not in targeted ways. That is surveillance.
        That is intelligence practiced not by intelligence agencies but by
        anyone or anything with a sensor network.” geer.rsa.28ii14.txt

        The aviation failures have risen to the point they are losing big 777’s and the more complexity they develop the worse the system gets. With my luck they’d rent me one of those Chevy sedans with the defective ignitions. Place me on your do not rent list! The losses total billions. Snowden bullshit has everybody worried, waiting for salvation via Putin. Nation of idiots.

      • RE@DER says:

        Public has rights. Keep the public houses open and the taps wet. Public education is a right. They have a list of closed schools and irate educators. Chicago. They had contracts and now all the labor rights are gone.

        “Indeed, they would have been obliged to emigrate or starve but for a fortunate idea of Prince Fridolin’s, who started a labor-union, the first one in history, and got the great bulk of them to join it. He thus won the general gratitude, and they wanted to make him emperor–emperor over them all–emperor of County Cork, but he said no, walking delegate was good enough for him. For behold, he was modest beyond his years, and keen as a whip. To this day in Germany and Switzerland, where St. Fridolin is deeply revered and honored, the peasantry speak of him affectionately as the first walking delegate.”

        We have so many gates swinging now it makes Watergate look like a day at the beach.

  13. reader says:
    They own all your airspace and the corporate drones are on the way to destroy all your privacy. On top of no rights you’ll have no privacy. You get to pay for more public goods, like Iraq. They’re wasting money on the airport to keep creating bigger losses. Keep the airports open because the Interstate’s closing. That’s all built on some old dump. Sell it to the public. You can drive and with the rip off fuel prices you won’t be. Interest is at 1% and oil is over $100 a barrel. The banks have no way to make money honestly and the public gets gouged on fuel. Post office losses grow. Turn all the banks into filling stations. With more stations and competition prices will fall. With no competition you have no reasonable prices.

  14. reader says:

    “It is hardly just McKinsey; Martin Ford’s _The Lights in the Tunnel_or Brynjolfsson’s and McAfee’s _The Race Against the Machine_ also say that the white collar job is the next to go. As one of my colleagues at Goldman Sachs points out, the American white collar
    job disappears because in a globalized world, even genius is cheap,
    but what McKinsey, Ford, or Brynjolfsson are talking about is that
    human genius is soon itself expendable in Taipei as much as Tampa.” geer.suitsandspooks.8ii12.txt

    With cheap genius flying should be cheap. It’s not, thanks to price rigging which compromises security. Thus you get less security and at higher prices. Don’t blame me.


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