Jill Stein raised $7 million to do a recount. The judge wants $1 million bond and that’s even negotiable. But Stein refuses to post it because she’s going to Federal Court (which has no jurisdiction) and dropping the state court case.

I’m calling this a scam. She has the money and she won’t use it. I think she’s scamming us. She’s taking advantage of voters who want a recount to pocket the money. And she’s diverting attention away from the fact that if she had dropped out of the race a month early and not attacked Hillary, Trump wouldn’t be president elect.

(Yes – it’s Hillary’s fault. But Stein put Trump over the top like Nader did in 2000)

The Green Party’s Jill Stein is changing tactics in Pennsylvania, dropping a call for a recount in the state court in order to pursue the effort in federal court. Why? At least in part because it was just too expensive. Even though Stein has raised more than $7 million for her recount effort, the Green Party said that it will not post the $1 million bond required by the court.

“Petitioners are regular citizens of ordinary means,” notes the filing that withdrew the lawsuit filed with the Commonwealth Court of Pennsylvania. “They cannot afford to post the $1,000,000 bond required by the Court.” The court set the $1 million after lawyers representing President-elect Donald Trump called for a $10 million bond.

Can’t afford it? She raised $7 million. The bond is $1 million. Who want’s to bet she pockets the money!

Liar liar pants on fire!!!

BTW – piece of trivia. I also host BradBlog.com on this same server and the first news of the recount was announced on this server. So I feel I was personally scammed. The traffic even took this server offline for about 15 minutes till I found a way to process the traffic.



  1. bobbo, the pragmatic existential anti-theist and Social Justice Kibbitzer says:

    I heard she was doing it to build up a constituency base for 2020.

    Of note… more than a few people think the actual vote might even favor Hillary due to the small margin Trump won by and the many times over that number of votes that haven’t even been counted. Put aside for various reasons to be looked at only in disputed elections. An exception swallowing the rule.

    I think Minnesota was mentioned…. Trump won by 10K votes but the uncounted votes are 80K….early votes cast I think sure to favor Clinton.

    Why doesn’t Hillary contest herself??? ……. It might all be rigged?

      • Ah_Yea says:

        Great article, Thanks!

      • bobbo, the pragmatic existential anti-theist and Social Justice Kibbitzer says:

        “I endorse the scientific consensus on climate change to protect my career and reputation. To do otherwise would be dumb, at least in my situation.” /// Exactly wrong for just what he said before making such an asinine statement.

        • NewFormatSux says:

          This guy predicted Trump’s victory when everyone else said he would be gone within a few months. What bothers me is he thinks Trump will act on climate change more than Hillary(not in the article but he’s written about it before). The statement you dislike wasn’t fleshed out; based on previous writing I suspect he means protect himself from higher temperatures.

        • NewFormatSux says:

          Reading it again, not so sure. Confusing. I agree with the scientific consensus. When majority of scientists say something, I accept the verdict. So I do it to protect myself (from bullies). That doesn’t follow from the previous paragraph about science moving towards truth.

          • IM78 says:

            Where does your definition of “majority of scientists” come from?

          • NewFormatSux says:

            I’m paraphrasing the opening of the linked article.

          • Cgp says:

            It always amazes me then liberals refuse to do proper references.

            This stein thing has not been confronted with the hypocracy of not checking illegal votes. Nobody has kicked her to touch with this. Why not?

            I wonder if the liberal cause has been damaged beyond near term reelection!

        • bobbo, the pragmatic existential anti-theist and Social Justice Kibbitzer says:

          Nice to see you have one opinion, read the piece, and at least doubt your opinion.

          Just lather and repeat.

  2. NewFormatSux says:

    Are you sure her voters would have picked Hillary over Trump? Stein’s main issue that I heard was Hillary would start World War 3 with Russia.

    Replace recount with primary, and you can replace “Jill Stein” with “Bernie Sanders”. The fix was in. They had an arrangement where he runs but doesn’t hit her too hard.

  3. What About Bob? says:

    Its not just the people who participating in Obama care whose rates went up. I didn’t want Obamacare, I didn’t sign up for it. I instead opted to keep my insurance company (as was promised). My rates went up 300%, and I could not find a better deal than that.

    Obamacare is a failure, ill-conceived and executed by bureaucrats who know shit about how business works.

  4. Uncle Martin says:

    You said it yourself…

    Jill Stein is the head of the GREEN PARTY!

    Why is this money thing so surprising to you? She’s also a POLITICIAN!!!

  5. JCjr says:

    “scamming *us*”??

    I didn’t vote for the lying b*tch.

  6. Marc Perkel says:

    I didn’t vote for the lying bitch either. (Stein)

    • Mr Diesel - Trump Won the Election, Suck It Crybabies says:

      No, you voted for the other lying bitch.

  7. Hmeyers says:

    Giving money to a lady that believes in magic crystals and is an anti-vaxxer is always a brilliant idea.

    My main complaint is that she didn’t raise more money.

    But yeah, the Pennsylvania $1.1 million dollar thing is a clear sign she wants to keep the money.

  8. Jeff says:

    Lovely thoroughness here. Seems to list $1M < $7M while conveniently forgetting
    1) fund is for 3 states, not one
    2) Wisconsin is unexpectedly charging 3.5M
    3) lawyers to petition 3 states and answer charges by opposition cost money above any bonds which may be required.
    4) the dropped action was the statewide suit, continuing with per precinct actions
    5) "This money is going strictly into a segregated account which can only be spent on the recount. So, this money is entirely, will be completely used, and we'll be lucky if we can cover the costs,"

    I feel there isn't actually enough listed here to show that the fund raising is dramatically out of scale with potential costs of this across all three states. The dropped action is interesting, but do not have the time to research the justification for that move and it seems neither did you.

  9. Ah_Yea says:

    Stein costing Hillary the election is WRONG!

    Right answer? NO ONE KNOWS.

    Consider:
    People voted for Stein because THEY DIDN’T LIKE HILLARY!
    People voted for Stein because THEY DIDN’T LIKE TRUMP!

    Ergo, they would have voted for Johnson, or not at all.

    Same result.

    • McCullough says:

      Agreed. Hearing excuses about why Hillary lost is starting to get old.

      • Mr Diesel - Trump Won the Election, Suck It Crybabies says:

        Get used to hearing it.

        1. It was Trump’s racism
        2. It was James Comey
        3. It was Russian hackers
        4. It was Julian Assange
        5. It was Jill Stein
        6. It was Gary Johnson
        7. It was Fox News
        8. It was KellyAnn Conway
        9. It was never the that she was a lying fucking bitch unworthy of being elected dog catcher in hell, let alone president of the US.

        • oldman says:

          FTW

        • NewFormatSux says:

          Don’t forget Evan McMullin! There was a reporter interviewing people on the street, and he had a McMullin voter who decided his vote would be wasted and he went for Hillary. I suspect without Evan even his puppetmaster Bill Kristol would have voted Hilllary.

      • Ah_Yea says:

        Ugg, old already.

        But we will hear it for the rest of our lives, just like the Bush vs. Gore recount, 16 years ago and counting.

        Interesting article on this:
        http://dailywire.com/news/10125/5-things-you-should-know-about-how-al-gore-lost-aaron-bandler

        • NewFormatSux says:

          One talking point of Republicans is that Bush would have won the recounts, because the media did a recount of all the ballots in the state. However, this avoids the reality that the Dems would have stolen the election in a recount. I remember video of a 3 person panel deciding contested ballots. Two of them were calling it like they see it, while the third decided every ballot was a vote for Gore.
          “Gore, Gore, Gore”
          “Gore, not sure, Gore”
          “not sure, not sure, Gore”
          “Bush, Bush, Gore”(not making this up).

    • Marc Perkel says:

      Ultimately Hillary cost Hillary the election. However one can name dozens of events that would have flipped the margin a little. And they are all technically true, including Stein.

      • McCullough says:

        Yes, we could debate this thing for years. Or maybe just let it go.

        We can revisit when she announces for 2020, in a month or two.

        http://nationalreview.com/corner/442503/hillary-clinton-2020-because-america-hasnt-suffered-enough

        • bobbo, the pragmatic existential anti-theist and Social Justice Kibbitzer says:

          It can/should be let go when Trump stops claiming he won the popular vote as well AND he stops claiming he has a mandate.

          You got a whole different kind of crazy when complaining as he is ABOUT WINNING FOR CHRISTS SAKE. Lets all hunker down for his first acknowledged lose??? Ha, ha…. what will THAT look like??? What Issue will Trump take personally instead of saying he won while losing?

          Well…..its gonna be fun.

  10. Phydeau says:

    Smart move, y’all… focus on everything but what Trump is doing. He criticized Clinton for cozying up to Goldman Sachs, then hired one of their guys as his Treasury Secretary. Then he caused an international incident with China/Taiwan by cluelessly stepping into complex diplomatic waters after declining a briefing from the State Department. And there’s more – there’s just too much to list.

    Your boy Trump is an ongoing disaster. Best to put your hands on your ears and shout “LA LA LA I CANT HEAR YOU”.

    • NewFormatSux says:

      Then why aren’t you putting up money for the recount? She needs another million to continue in Pennsylvania.
      He caused an international incident in China? Then why are the Chinese saying Taiwan is responsible?
      The votes are
      Trump responsible – 1 Phydeau
      Taiwan responsible – 1323567894

      RECOUNT!

      • bobbo, the pragmatic existential anti-theist and Social Justice Kibbitzer says:

        Then why aren’t you putting up money for the recount? /// Hillary has all the money she needs to do recounts if she thinks its worthwhile. If she doesn’t, no reason for anyone else to do it. Kinda like the JFK assassination.

        She needs another million to continue in Pennsylvania. /// Any contribution could be justified as simply a contribution to the Green Party….but even valid fights must come to an end..”I got out manuevred.” Why win the recount unless you win ALL of them and then accept a Presidency so wounded???

        He caused an international incident in China? /// No… “with” China.

        Then why are the Chinese saying Taiwan is responsible? /// To suck Trump further in.

        The votes are
        Trump responsible – 1 Phydeau /// Up to 2.
        Taiwan responsible – 1323567894 /// What are you using….a Minnesota Voting machine?

        RECOUNT! /// I would have voted for Hillary…but dislike her so much myself… calling in Poetic Justice and hope Trump gets impeached before bankrupting America.

        • Mickey D says:

          ” hope Trump gets impeached before bankrupting America.”

          Obama has already done that with Bush’s help before him. 20 Trillion last count.

          • bobbo, the pragmatic existential anti-theist and Social Justice Kibbitzer says:

            After the bailouts, Obama has been reducing the debt as a good democrat does.

            What Trump is planning to do is double or triple the debt from current levels “for no good reason at all.”

            Its a difference.

          • NewFormatSux says:

            As a good democrat, you are providing lying talking points about surpluses under Obama.

        • Bob says:

          And you expect us to believe you didn’t vote for Hillary? Bullshit.

          • bobbo, the pragmatic existential anti-theist and Social Justice Kibbitzer says:

            I did not vote for Hillary. Living in California… my vote doesn’t count. Why stand in line…… for what?

          • Bob says:

            You didn’t vote? Then I have less than zero sympathy for your popular vote protestations.

          • bobbo, the pragmatic existential anti-theist and Social Justice Kibbitzer says:

            Well Bob…..copy and paste where I have protested the popular vote.

            Your brain is not to be used as a door stop.

            Learn to read. Think for yourself…dog whistles are no substitute.

          • Bob says:

            Well dumbo, you have stated many times that you think popular vote should rule over the EC. I don’t need to copy and paste diddly squat.

          • Hendrick says:

            I have seen this too, who the hell do you think you are kidding?

          • bobbo, the pragmatic existential anti-theist and Social Justice Kibbitzer says:

            Gee Whiz guys: if I voted, or if I didn’t: the popular vote is irrelevant. THAT is what I have consistently posted. I think the popular vote “should be” how we choose our President: it would actually make my vote/not vote situation in California RELEVANT.

            California voted in Hillary by WIDE POPULAR VOTE===>that did not matter at the EC level. So…no need to vote for California’s EC vote…and no effect at all at the EC level.

            ONLY THE POPULAR VOTE would make my vote “count” for anything in California. See what difference it makes?

            ….but….I’m not complaining at all. I’m only stating my own preference and the rationale for it.

            Let’s see now….. I also did not vote in the First Election of General Washington. By way of your values matrix, am I prevented by saying I rank George Washington as the best President the USA ever had and he set the course for our Country in a most excellent direction… one that many other candidates would have turned more towards old world sovereignties..or maybe even banana republics?

            I don’t think you guys have a clue as to whats relevant …. why its relevant … or anything else.

            Surprise me. Why does voting or not where it has no impact on results at all touch upon being able to comment on one’s continuing analysis/preferences/understandings/contributions????

            I’ll wait….but I’m off to the hardware store for a few gaskets.

          • NewFormatSux says:

            I live in New Hampshire. I didn’t vote either, and it didn’t matter.

          • ± says:

            [to bobbo]

            You didn’t vote after how you go on about politics here?

            Well bobbo, you are no better than a used asswipe. And you’re not even smart enuff to keep your mouth shut about it. Why people keep talking to you except to show you how fucked up you are is also hard to understand. Don’t fret, I will continue to be here for you for that reason.

            BTW, did you register checkwithbobbobeforeyouvote.com yet? I think it is still available. You could advise people who to vote for and also when not to vote.

          • bobbo, the pragmatic existential anti-theist and Social Justice Kibbitzer says:

            There is a REASON one votes. When that REASON cannot be met under the rules in play…. only a fool/sheep continues the game.

            It makes sense you all do.

            Pragmatism.

            It includes NOT doing what DOESN’T work….. amounting to just a waste of time.

            btw: I do notice no one has said what was lost by my not voting in California where Clinton won by large margins in a winner takes all system.

            …………… yeah……….. i know.

          • Hmeyers says:

            I agree with Bobbo.

            Elections are always about swing vote, not the loyal base.

            1) So states in flux … Florida, Ohio, Wisconsin, Iowa
            2) So voting blocks in flux … blue collar rust-belt Democrats this particular year

            Are always who calls elections.

            Youngtown, Ohio — a heavily Democratic stronghold — the county actually went nearly 50% for Trump, which in prior years would have been unthinkable for a (R).

            Someone in Alabama or California — a state that with a pre-determined fixed outcome — it doesn’t really matter if you vote for president or not.

          • bobbo, the pragmatic existential anti-theist and Social Justice Kibbitzer says:

            thanks HM. the issue feeds right back into why a Popular Vote makes so much more sense. but too many will say the Electorial College is important and then turn right around and complain when people don’t vote.

            I put it down to unthinking ignorance.

            somewhat on your point, I heard someone say that a “swing” in 100K votes in the 4 swing states would have changed the election.

            simple fact is, on many issues, in effect America is an evenly split electorate…. to be divided up and pit against each other according to the specifics.

          • Hmeyers says:

            The Electoral College caused Obama no problems, he beat McCain and Romney in blowouts.

            The Electoral College was supposed to Hillary’s ace-in-hole — even if Trump could win the popular vote …

            The Blue Firewall was supposed to make impossible for him to reach 270 due to Demographic shifts.

            Might also add that one thing known about the Electoral College is that is uses census data that count people — not citizens — so states like California or Texas or Arizona with a lot of non-citizen immigrants or even illegal immigrants …

            … get a bit of disproportional representation in both the electoral college and seats in the House of Representatives.

            I also think if the popular vote was the metric, that more people in non-swing states would have voted.

            Although in this particular year, I don’t know if that would have favored Trump or not because he was rather unpopular …

            But in a theoretical Mark Rubio vs. Clinton scenario, someone like Mark Rubio could probably rack up whopping popular margin in Texas, Florida and the South while doing fairly well in California compared to a Trump.

            Be careful what you wish for 🙂 Such is the peril of thinking “the rules” favor one party or another. Maybe in Scenario X, but in Scenario Y they could be devastating.

          • bobbo, the pragmatic existential anti-theist and Social Justice Kibbitzer says:

            Thanks for the review HM….. of course…. I’m NOT THINKING OF THE PARTIES AT ALL. Only partisan dimwits do that.

            I’m just thinking of we the people…… democracy………….. one man, one vote ………. other heresies.

          • Hmeyers says:

            In July during the Republican convention when Trump had a very great week …

            And when the Democrats had a very poor week with a DNC emaill dump … causing Debbie Wasserman to abruptly resign over charges of rigging for Hillary over Sanders …

            Trump was leading by as much as 7% in the national polls.

            But the thing was, he was capped at 266 electoral votes because Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Colorado, Virgina were WAY out of reach.

            So the convention wisdom was that the Electoral College would stop any Republican nominee because their popular vote distribution would be in the wrong states.

            Hillary and her campaign staff bragged about how this made her inevitable, because there was no road to victory for a Republican due to the Blue Firewall.

        • NewFormatSux says:

          Recount has started! It is now 1323567894 to 2!

    • McCullough says:

      The only international incident is in your head Phy.

      • Phydeau says:

        Read about it, McCullough. Google it, even. “Trump Taiwan China”

        • Hmeyers says:

          He’s preparing China to anticipate changes, particularly on trade policy where China has been very aggressive and has engaged in dumping.

          He’s getting that shock of upcoming changes out of the way now and breaking them in for understanding more will happen.

          China’s economy is at a plateau right now.

          Trump will be establishing fair relations with China on trade.

          China would lose very badly in a trade war because they have 1 billion people and need to maintain growth to sustain a baseline.

          The United States does not buy food or essentials from China, there are other suppliers for raw materials including ourselves.

          Read up. Educate yourself. You are a Democrat right? Aren’t you supposed to be smarter and more aware than the Republicans?

          • Phydeau says:

            Pssst, all of our economies are at a plateau now; some call it end-stage capitalism. 🙁

            But now it looks like Taiwanese lobbyists (including Bob Dole) planned this call; it wasn’t off the cuff. Don’t know if that’s comforting or not… on the one hand, Trump’s not shooting from the hip, on the other hand it looks like the big lobbyists are calling the shots for him… what was that about man of the people? 🙄

            http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/06/us/politics/bob-dole-taiwan-lobby-trump.html

            Former Senator Bob Dole, acting as a foreign agent for the government of Taiwan, worked behind the scenes over the past six months to establish high-level contact between Taiwanese officials and President-elect Donald J. Trump’s staff, an outreach effort that culminated last week in an unorthodox telephone call between Mr. Trump and Taiwan’s president.

            Another opportunity for you to exercise your Trump rationalizing skills. No need to thank me. 😉

          • Phydeau says:

            And BTW, I supported Bernie. If his values were represented by a political party, I’d be a member of that party. As it is we have the old Republicans (currently occupying the Democratic party) and the crazy new Republicans. 🙄

            No party for me. 🙁

        • Hmeyers says:

          Also, the US unlike China does not need to import energy.

          With the rise of oil prices, shale oil production will resume. Also the Keystone Pipeline. As I understand it, the US actually exports shale oil. But we ironically can be energy independent, which is strange because unthinkable a decade ago.

          Maybe Bobbo can confirm this, but as I understand it shale oil is cleaner to acquire than traditional drilling. Seems strange to me, but I don’t claim to know anything about oil production.

          • bobbo, the pragmatic existential anti-theist and Social Justice Kibbitzer says:

            Shale Oil = the dirtiest there is. Only thing that makes it “clean” is how much processing it goes thru and where they dump the extra carbon and impurities.

            Exporting shale oil to China would be a good thing if the pollution didn’t go global.

            Because of that…. its idiotic policy to spend energy to transport energy in such bulk amounts. China has all the coal and shale oil they could want. Does China import energy???? Building a new coal fired electrical facility per week?…. I doubt it.

            Ha, ha…….and I do mean this as a funny: you wouldn’t be confusing the Japanese with the Chinese would you?

          • NewFormatSux says:

            China imports a large amount of coal each year. Compared to usage it is small fraction, but still more than the vast majority of countries.

          • bobbo, the pragmatic existential anti-theist and Social Justice Kibbitzer says:

            Its LARGE and small at the same time huh? do you think that magic takes place on the cargo ships or in your mind?

            but yes…..I just have recently read more about their coal burning plants, solar, and such than their LARGE but still small coal importation.

            USA does the same. Exports and imports the same product as may be variously defined? ie: clean vs dirty coal? Or it may be a financial or supply hedge device…. I don’t know. Good thing in additional to being LARGE it is also small.

            I assume the Middle East does not import oil or coal from other countries? but I don’t KNOW. That might be an example of small and small? They are building LARGE solar farms……you know…….. for the future. Unlike the USA building dirty shale oil pipe lines.

          • NewFormatSux says:

            What happened to your reading comprehension rules?
            Here’s an explanation.
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_oiHWXLIFI

  11. bobbo, the pragmatic existential anti-theist and Social Justice Kibbitzer says:

    Physdeau said international incident. I agree that is too strong and the news is saying “violated protocols.” The incidents will slide/flow later.

    From another blog…not my words but I know fences and protocols are put in place for many “extended” reasons….note… its how WW1 got started…no one decided to do it…. just a slide from the first relatively small action:

    “Trump did make a mistake with that phone call to Taiwan. Trump then made a big mistake with his follow up tweets. Trump hasn’t realised what this mistake is yet, because he is inexperienced. It’s not about China and the USA’s relationship. China is now going to start “working” Trump’s own words in other scenarios.

    In essence, there are hundreds of specific “nod & wink” protocols between other nations. For example, China does not directly contact the individual permanent secretaries of Australia, New Zealand and discuss the ANZUS treaty. (The USA/Australian/New Zealand military alliance,) as a protocol. The protocol is for China to contact ANZUS collectively as one group.

    However, Trump has now broken that barrier by communicating direct with Taiwan. That means China can “follow Trump’s words and actions” and do the same and throw Trumps words back at him as justification. I’m not suggesting its going to be ANZUS. That was just an example.

    However the Philippines and USA have the 1951 Mutual Defense Treaty and until recently were good allies. China flirted with the Philippines using commercial business agreements, but did not enter into any diplomatic discussions regarding defense agreements, as that would be breaking protocol. Now that barrier has been removed by Trump. At the moment China is working on food security issues. Soon it will be moving into Energy security issues (oil) .

    If you consider that China will soon have the world’s biggest economy and already has large cash reserves, and that the USA’s middle eastern allies, don’t actually get on with the USA, I can imagine China will no longer recognise the USA posted “Keep off the grass” signs outside middle eastern foreign embassies.

    Trump has simply opened a door concerning how China deals with other USA allies.”

    Back to me: the British Commonwealth countries of the Pacific Rim have been operating under the umbrella of USA security/military cover. Should this long existing informal arrangement end…those countries could well face financial strains of rearming themselves up to confrontational strength… do we really need more cooks in this overheated kitchen?

    • NewFormatSux says:

      If China is blaming Taiwan then it is not much of an incident.

      • bobbo, the pragmatic existential anti-theist and Social Justice Kibbitzer says:

        I don’t know what “blaming Taiwan” even means. What happened IN FACT: a violation of accepted informal protocols.

        Tear down the fence……. at your risk.

        • Phydeau says:

          Bobbo, you’re right, not an international incident, just kind of ignorantly blundering into areas he has no clue about, then whining about it on Twitter afterward. Not an encouraging sign.

          • bobbo, the pragmatic existential anti-theist and Social Justice Kibbitzer says:

            Everybody knows what you meant.

            ………….some like to quibble.

            But not the Chinese. They are inscrutable. Good thing the Donald has done so many good deals with them.

            (Sarc/Off)

          • ± says:

            [to bobbo]
            Phydeau called out on his histrionic “international incident” statement correctly backs off. You jump in and defend the statement. You partisan zealots just gotsta stick together. 🙄

        • NewFormatSux says:

          Officials in the Chinese government are declaring that Taiwan is the offender. In other words, the Chinese are more mature than some in the media portray, and are not really getting outraged over this.
          It is like the ‘Arab Street’, which supposedly will rise up at every affront.

  12. bobbo, the pragmatic existential anti-theist and Social Justice Kibbitzer says:

    Struck me watching Trump befuddles over the 300 ball bearing jobs going to Mexico that Trump “could” be a passible PreneDent “IF” he holds firm on NOT privatizing Soc Sec or Medicare. Then…if he could get a tariff on leaving USA Made products thereby terrorizing jobs to stay here… that would be good (an unknown Tsunami Wave or reaction would occur making that prospect almost impossible?)….. and then if he would break up the Banksters and the Military Industrial complex (EG the Trillion dollar Air Force One that does sound like “a bit too much”) THEN the only real harm would be his deficit spending and overall if he doesn’t slide us into WW3–he might actually outperform what Hillary with a Republican congress would have been able to do.

    its always a mix of things.

    • NewFormatSux says:

      Defense Department is sitting on a report of $125 billion in waste, more than they expected to find. You think Hillary would have acted on that?

      • bobbo, the pragmatic existential anti-theist and Social Justice Kibbitzer says:

        Is that the same Fraud, Waste, and Stupidity report that has said the same thing for the last 30 years and is only updated yearly with: “It only getting worse?”

  13. Phydeau says:

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/07/trump-adviser-son-michael-flynn-sacked-pizzagate-comet-ping-pong-restaurant

    Since the election the Twitter postings of Flynn Sr have been uncontroversial. But days before the vote he tweeted a “must read” link to a story falsely claiming that Clinton’s emails contained proof of money-laundering and child abuse.

    Oh lordy… Trump’s selection for National Security Advisor has been tweeting out obviously false stories about Clinton… he’ll fit right in. 🙄

    • Hmeyers says:

      The news today is that since Trump won the election, it is now OK to say “Merry Christmas!” again!

      According to the cartoon …

      Your heart should grow should grow “three sizes” this day!

      So cheer up, Phydeau!

    • NewFormatSux says:

      Don’t know the difference between parent and kid. Did you think you were voting for Chelsea?

  14. Hmeyers says:

    It is somewhat poetic justice that Hillary —

    Who started with 754 superdelegates and had the media publish …

    Hillary 765 delegates, Bernie 16 delegates

    After 1 state voted.

    Her sudden interest in the popular vote is rather surprising, since the popular vote and unelected superdelegates didn’t bother her a bit in primaries.

  15. Phydeau says:

    In related news…

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/07/us/politics/scott-pruitt-epa-trump.html

    President-elect Donald J. Trump has selected Scott Pruitt, the Oklahoma attorney general and a close ally of the fossil fuel industry, to run the Environmental Protection Agency, a transition official said, signaling Mr. Trump’s determination to dismantle President Obama’s efforts to counter climate change.

    All those thinking the common man will get a good deal with the fossil fuel industry running the EPA, raise your hand. Yes, a few diehards. Our environment is about to get a lot dirtier so that Exxon/Mobil and a few other bazillion-dollar companies can make more profits. And the billion-dollar subsidies they are getting from our taxpayer dollars will continue.

    Donald Trump, man of the people! 🙄 🙄

    • NewFormatSux says:

      So you’re saying this isn’t one of those instances where conservatives will feel abandoned by Trump?

    • NewFormatSux says:

      I didn’t realize it was the job of the EPA to write laws or veto them.

      • bobbo, the pragmatic existential anti-theist and Social Justice Kibbitzer says:

        its what all agencies do by how they enforce or don’t the laws they are meant to enforce by letter if not spirit. They often do just the opposite—as is always telegraphed by the people put in charge.

        Trump = putting people in place to protect/increase the value of his own multi-million dollar positions in Fossil fuel WHILE DENYING THE SCIENCE OF IT ALL.

        The Government of, by, and for the Deplorables is rolling out…………….

        • NewFormatSux says:

          I’m curious, what are these multi-million dollar fossil fuel positions he owns? If I’d known about them I wouldn’t have told people he may be more likely to act on global warming than Hillary.

          • bobbo, the pragmatic existential anti-theist and Social Justice Kibbitzer says:

            I’ve heard two different specific examples…forget the names. It might even involve chinese gubment/businesses which makes him claiming Global Warming is a hoax by the Chinese especially devious and clever to the point of “almost” admirable. ….. you know, other than killing off the human race so Trump can have another golden toilet seat.

            …. memory starting to be refreshed…I’m wrong on at least one reference which was to the contested pipeline from Canada down to New orleans so that Canada can sell their shale oil to china.

            So: Global Warming isn’t true so that Trump can make money transporting shale oil to China for China to burn and sell stuff back to USA.

            Makes sense. I withdraw my comment that Trump has investments in Chinese energy production. I was in the ballpark but factually wrong.

            always good to be corrected…. and get the facts correct.

            Thank you. (Until I remember the second one?) Ha, ha.

          • NewFormatSux says:

            So I still have to worry Trump will go full Gore?

          • bobbo, the pragmatic existential anti-theist and Social Justice Kibbitzer says:

            Just a “light” gut feel…Trump doesn’t challenge himself to look deeply at issues. He lives/gets off on adulation and he gets that from many people still wanting to profit from burning fossil fuels. AGW is false is probably something he first heard 10 years ago, he repeated it, got approval…so now we are all stuck with it.

            Same with being pro Social Security and Medicare. I think he just heard the pro side years ago….and he’s sticking with it.

            anti-Banksters…. THAT could be Trump just a bit green eyed jealous. the Banksters don’t even build anything and they have lower marginal tax rates that Trump is just jealous of…. never mind he hasn’t paid taxes in 12 years himself due to the advantaged real estate investment right off special tax provisions. Jealousy is just that self possessed.

            The rest of the world will still go green..BECAUSE it is cheaper…. without gubment getting in the way…eg by outlawing individuals from selling their excess energy…to neighbors or back to the grid.

            Thus we see the BASIS for Science Denial…. its not science…. its……….. say it with me: GREED….. and F our grandkiddies.

            I got mine……..tough for you.

          • NewFormatSux says:

            Again if it’s cheaper so that the rest of the world will flock to it, then the problem is largely solved and nothing to worry about. No need to pass any mandates. Just let things happen on their own. No need for a moonshot, as it is already achieved.

            If on the other hand it is not cheaper, and a moonshot is required, still no need for mandates. You want the payoff from the moonshot to be higher to give people incentive to achieve it.
            It also means the world will not go green on its own, and again no need for mandates, because the US share is irrelevant compared to the global share.

          • bobbo, the pragmatic existential anti-theist and Social Justice Kibbitzer says:

            …..and that’s how American Exceptionalism and World Leadership died when Billionaire Biznesmen did the business on the USA.

            Thank you sheeples.

    • NewFormatSux says:

      The common man in West Virginia who twice voted for Bill Clinton rejected Hillary for a Vermont Yankee. They are quite happy with this guy at EPA. Same with Kentucky and all the other states that voted for Trump. Lower gas prices, lower car prices, lower energy bills. Sounds good to me.

      • bobbo, the pragmatic existential anti-theist and Social Justice Kibbitzer says:

        I know Bernie Sanders is the New York Jewish Communist….. who is the Vermont Yankee?

        Lower gas prices = fraking with all its pollution

        Lower car prices = where?

        Lover energy bills = again where? Mine keep going up. Who am I subsidizing?

        Does sound good though. HATE THOSE CLAXON HORNS of reality waking me up though. “Very rude.”

      • Phydeau says:

        Yes, NFS, people who work for the energy industry will be happy when the energy industry runs things. Amazing insight. 🙄 All the rest of us will suffer increased pollution.

  16. bobbo, the pragmatic existential anti-theist and Social Justice Kibbitzer says:

    ± with the insight or honesty of a turnip says:
    12/7/2016 at 2:15 pm

    [to bobbo]
    Phydeau called out on his histrionic “international incident” statement correctly backs off. You jump in and defend the statement. You partisan zealots just gotsta stick together. 🙄 /// McCullough called him out, previous and after same I stated the objective facts. I did NOT defend the statement….I defended the idea that was behind the statement. You know: like the Trump Deplorables are teaching us all to do: Don’t take the words literally.

    The only draw back in taking candy from children…. is who wants the candy…. and the whole point is, children are no challenge.

    Up your Game Deplorables. I posted above how Trump could come thru, but I’m more impressed and expecting a complete FUBAR of a Trump Administration: FOR THE SAME REASON I DID NOT SUPPORT HILLARY: a group of fantacists living in a bubble scamming the public for all the power and money they can get.

    Lie after lie after lie. At least Hillary did try to cover it up with her triangulating overly cautious “lawyer speak” but the Deplorables are proud to tout their snake oil. Flip flopping our future away.

    I don’t even think the specifics need to be spelled out…. even the deplorables “know” it. Only their kneejerk partisanship will take some time to detumesce.

  17. bobbo, the pragmatic existential anti-theist and Social Justice Kibbitzer says:

    To the Editors:

    I apologize. I see I followed the OP hacking subject of Donald Trump but took it to the side track of AGW and Energy Policy. I’ll stop now.

    You know………………………. probably the biggest single “issue” driving the decline of this forum is lack of daily postings of FRESH TOPICS. More work for a few editors, less work for more editors.

    We pick and choose our futures.

    Energy Policy: should be at least one post per week? Its all about Energy, Felon Musk, technology, Politics, the Future, and so forth. Seems to be a LARGE number of people here wanting to discuss the issue? But I have pledged not to unless fairly raised.

    Why not do more rather than less?

    • ± says:

      Yeah editors, why don’t you feed bobbo’s obsession to discuss AGW? That would be a good course to take this blog on.          🙄

      • bobbo, the pragmatic existential anti-theist and Social Justice Kibbitzer says:

        I said, posted, and meant: Energy Policy. If there was at least one new OP per day, it would be an intentional act to avoid Energy Policy for more than 6 months…….good thing Marc wants a Tesla.

    • IM78 says:

      I gotta say, bobbo, I really appreciate your comments most of the time. It’s when you start the name-calling that I can’t stand your writing. I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one that takes offense to it. It detracts from your otherwise enjoyable writing. Also, I hate to break this to you, but you are obviously not as intelligent as you think you are. Just sayin’

      • bobbo, the pragmatic existential anti-theist and Social Justice Kibbitzer says:

        I do very little name calling.

        I do find and post that a lot of thinking is…… faulty at best.

        ………….or do you call “buy a dictionary” name calling? I do say “Puke” a lot. Hard to avoid when its right under your nose.

        Faulty thinking, textbook argumentative fallacies, people unwilling to recognize/correct their own errors, forming conclusions without any supporting facts or data.

        Trump.

      • Phydeau says:

        None of us are as smart as we think we are. I think it’s the human condition to overestimate our own capabilities.

        • bobbo, we think with words and flower with ideas says:

          Are my salad days in front of me?

          bobbo’s most common criticism:

          1. name calling

          2. hijacking thread to AGW

          3. thinks he is smarter than he is.

          1&2 already addressed. No 3 always makes me laugh. I am DRIVEN by the recognition I’m not smart enough. Thats my drive for information, facts, reasoning, good arguments. I think thinking you are smart is actually the occupation of those……… of that persuasion. Wifey has an IQ 30 points higher than mine. We both laugh at how stupid we are…… the recognition we can/should always strive to do better.

          I need a bigger dictionary…… just not going to pay for the Oxford.

    • NewFormatSux says:

      Room Service..!

  18. Wait A Minute says:

    “I do very little name calling.”

    Sad. You are the worst kind of bully, a coward who insults people and hides behind a keyboard. Not that I mind a bully. Most here know you are full of shit.

    But if you were to act in public the way you act here, on this blog. You wouldn’t last 10 minutes.

  19. bobbo, we think with words and flower with ideas says:

    I’m in the mood to Wait A Minute :
    12/8/2016 at 2:55 pm

    “I do very little name calling.” //// Name calling: You are stupid. NOT name calling: “How deep is your stupid hole?” See the difference?? I think I have said this only once before, so maybe its time again? I name call and insult “mostly” because I find it fun to do. I like doing it, I like when its done to me. Purely emotional. doing what one likes to do. You and others don’t like it or use it as a handy excuse to criticize my posting or presence here?==ie, you are the same as me. Liking and not liking things done YOUR WAY. That conflict is: the market place of ideas. You really should “think through” exactly why you don’t like name calling and insults. WHY IS THAT?????? What difference/harm does it actually make? Its just “words.”

    Words are interesting things. We think with words. Use the right ones, and we can even find an idea. Name calling and insults are BS. They don’t advance an argument regardless of how revealing they show the user to be. They are BS. Most people posting here are full of BS. BS: using words that don’t advance the argument/position being made/advocated. Aka: talking points. Aka Bumpersticker Sayings. AKA: Lies meant to whip up the faithful.

    Its all BS. When you look for ideas, facts==you filter out the BS. Filter out the name calling, the insults…. good practice to filter out the rest.

    Do yourself a favor. I could go on to the deeper psychological factors in play….but tempus fugit and this all has about NOTHING to do with the OP. But let democracy take wing?

    //////////////

    Sad. You are the worst kind of bully, a coward who insults people and hides behind a keyboard. /// Pure rhetoric.

    Not that I mind a bully. Most here know you are full of shit. /// Pure inconsistent rhetoric

    But if you were to act in public the way you act here, on this blog. You wouldn’t last 10 minutes. /// Exactly so. Time and place. Makes sense doesn’t it????? If I want a Church Sermon, I go to Church. If I want to play pattycakes… I babysit my niece or respond politely to the Pure Rhetoric on this forum.

    Yep…… pretty much all BS. /// That too was rhetoric. Its only mostly BS.

    Ha, ha……….silly hoomans. Approach and stare into the Abyss.

    • ± says:

      ****** incredibly, bobbo issued forth ***********
      …Name calling: You are stupid. NOT name calling: “How deep is your stupid hole?” See the difference?? …”
      *********************************************

      That you posit that there is a difference between the two, reinforces that you are a liar, stupid or both. A third less likely option is that you could be one of those (mentally ill) people who think something is true just because they said it.

      [no pseudo pithy observation here]

      • bobbo, we think with words and flower with ideas says:

        pm===I’m not surprised you don’t see the difference. The first is name calling, the second is shaming/attacking/disparaging/mocking and so forth. It accomplishes much the same goal but by different technique.

        If you go by car from A to B you are still at B …. but you did not bicycle. One does not equate the car and the bicycle just because they accomplished the same task.

        Now…..stop digging at that hole. You are way deep enough.

        • ± says:

          You continue to exhibit that you really don’t know how you present yourself to others. “How deep is your stupid hole” that you want to continue this dance? I’m ready. I’m here to facilitate bobbo’s urge to make bobbo look as stupid as he possibly can. Your turn.

          [additional appropriate comment re bobbo idiocy not stated here]

          • bobbo, we think with words and flower with ideas says:

            p/m==you disagree in conclusionary terms but offer no explanation, argument, examples to demonstrate what you mean … etc.

            You are: Stuck on ….. (your first notion).

            Regard the Two Circle Venn Diagram: One is …. no, lets make it Three: the typical one with equal overlaps: One is Name Calling, Another is Disparagement, Another is Mocking. See how they all overlap one another but not totally any other characteristic/definition???

            p/m: your understanding of the Venn Diagram is that there are no distinct area for each characteristic. For you…its all one form, the big merger, or as I often say: you are committing the SIN OF CONFLATION: not making distinctions that matter.

            Sucks to be you.

          • ± says:

            [to bobbo]

            The correct analogy/metaphor would be to use an Euler Diagram where the big circle is labeled “name calling” and two of the circles inside of it are “mocking” and “disparagement”.

            Outside of the big “name calling” circle, off by itself, would be another circle called “[conflation], a favored word of bobbo, who doesn’t always know how to use it correctly”.

            Understandably you try to defend your pathology, but it is still name calling and it what bobbo often does when bobbo is not able to effectively counter an argument.

            PS — there is no such thing as a “two circle” Venn Diagram.

            [another pseudo witticism avoided here]

          • NewFormatSux says:

            There is a two circle Venn diagram. You are right about the rest.

          • ± says:

            [to NewFormatSux] (and yes, it still does)

            I stand corrected on whether there can be a two overlapping circle Venn diagram. Thanghkqueue.

            That said, Euler Diagrams are where it’s at. 🙂

            https://reflectivemaths.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/euler-and-venn-diagrams.jpg


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