There’s regular gasoline at far left, then a gasoline blend, then alcohol. The next pump has gasoline and biodiesel.
I’m in Sao Paulo at the moment and found two energy-related initiatives worth reporting first hand. While we’ve written about the Brazilians pushing the making of alcohol for energy use, I doubt that people realize that it has been at the pumps for some time. Furthermore, I’m told that 80-percent of the cars can use it. And it’s quite a bit cheaper than gasoline. I’ll having prices and further reports after I get back to Califonia.
The most amazing thing, though, that I saw was Biodiesel at the pump too!
When oil prices fell in the 80s I saw all kinds of US journalists basically saying neah nah Brazil! It never seemed to cross their mind as to what a non renewable resource is.
Not only is their music great, but now they have us over a barrel (sorry) in alternative fuel development, too. How’d they do that? Probably they just needed to, a long time ago (and I’ve heard they have a well established sugar cane industry there, as well). I’m sure there would be problems trying to adapt this technology to our own bloated mass consumption behaviors, but then… better late than never…
(for example, will your Navigator have as much pep running on ethanol as it does on Saudi wahabi crude? Probably not… but hey you’ll still get there. So what’s the big problem?)
Jeez we need to get over this America-knows-best mentality and learn a few things from other cultures. We don’t have to have everybody love us… just earn some respect for a change, that’s all.
“The man who said it couldn’t be done was rudely interrupted by the man who had already done it!”
it is good that 80% of all cars can use it right away. certain sorts of biodiesel requires refitting the car with new gaskets and filters because the acid from the plants that have been converted will erode them.
i am glad to tell by the way, that in germany there is a biodiesel infrastructure all over the country and that my dad runs his 1.9 turbo-diesel volkswagen engine since 1999 on bio which is at roughly 150000km (100000miles) right now – or even more – without a glitch connected to the fuel it uses. volkswagen were one of the first (as to my understanding) who built eninges fitted with biodiesel proof gaskets and stuff right away. and it goes like a rocket!
plus bio diesel is cheaper because you don’t pay mineral-oil-taxes on it but it is climbing at the same rate as normal diesel, as if the price of crops is connected to the barrel oil… hm.
IT CAN be done, just we are YELLEd at that its NOT possible/feasable…
99% of the problem is the PROFIT margin would go down, and that GAS company OWNEr wouldnt be makeing $100+ per minute…(YEp, thats what they say he makes)(sleeping awake, or on the potty)
Thanks, I’m brazilian. Now we have flex-fuel car models running in our country.
Guys, there is NO technical reason for being underpowered with any of these alternative fuels. Folks have been racing methanol-powered cars for decades. All IRL and CART races [like, Indianapolis] are methanol-fueled. The main reason for the switch was that methanol fires are easier to extinguish — you can use water.
Its not that simple.
While alcohol has beem used in cars here in Brazil for decades, its economic vantage is still a matter of debate. You have to factor in that you get a lower milage per gallon with alcohol and that right now we are using oil to produce alcohol! For example, the trucks that take the sugar cane to the industries run on diesel.
To get the automotive alcohol going, brazilian goverment has had to subsidize alcohol production. For example, when gasoline in Brazil has a large percentage of alcohol added, plus a tax that goes to alcohol producers. Thank to this (and the patience of the first buyers) a lot of technical problems in the cars have beem solved.
Alcohol may be the fuel for the future, but right now it is still cheaper to run on gasoline.
FlexPower cars accounted for more than 50% of sales in Brazil last year. They can run on Mehtanol, Unleaded or a mixture of both depending on price etc. The handbook with the car explains when to use which fuel in order to save as much money as possible.
I agree with Daniel – when I lived in Brasil in the 80’s I remember thinking it was weird how often the car needed refueling. Is it possible to redesign or convert automobile engines to be more efficient using this fuel mixture?
You’re missing the economic point, folks. Yes, alcohol diminishes mileage — as much as 25%. But, you’re consuming a renewable resource.
Worrying about how much diesel is consumed transporting the alchol is answered by the same quality — use biodiesel instead. And, the, consumption rate is about the same.
But, take off the blinders when you look at the whole question and consider what is being saved by reduction in imported oil. For that matter, even reducing domestic oil consumption is useful. They are fixed reserves — not renewable in anything less than geologic time.
Make yourself knowledgeable on the topic if you’re going to post!
The ethanol used in the US is made from corn.
The ethanol used in Brazil is made from sugar.
It takes more energy to make one gallon of (corn) ethanol than the return it gives. It also takes fossil fuels to make the (corn) ethanol.
Just because the problem seems simple, it’s not always a simple problem or has a simple solution.
For those people who immediately say “Let’s use sugar to make ethanol then”. Keep in mind that sugar prices are regulated (no not just the Bush administration).
you may want to check out this article in BusinessWeek On-line about the downside issues of ethanol & e85 being pushed (for instance as the lead-in in the latest issue of Wired Magazine) – it helps the big 3 meet EPA regs but really may just create a bigger smog problem – this kills places like Denver or Baton Rouge with temperature inversion problems and/or localized geological characteristics that keep the ozone in place
http://www.businessweek.com/autos/content/apr2006/bw20060427_493909.htm?chan=autos_autos+index+page_insight
re #7 and #9
And big oil isn’t subsidized? Big oil gets so much money from the G right now that I think its specious to argue economics at this point.
It took me all of 30 seconds in a google search to find decent information on the breakdown, by percentage, of what gas at the pump costs. Taxes: 27%+
http://blogcritics.org/archives/2006/02/02/090904.php
Oh yes, there will be problems with it, I’m sure. A whole new design cycle is likely to happen, trying to make it reliable, safe to use, etc.
Somehow making ethanol more energy dense (if it were possible) would be a way to not have to have physically more of it on board. And yes, there’s energy penalty ‘gotchas’ all over the place.
Interesting to compare the various energy densities of fuels:
Check out hydrogen. Too bad you’d have to drag around a balloon full of the stuff.in its natural state.
Brazil is so far ahead of us, I’m sure they will be the first to take the leap to hydrogen!
alcohol has a higher flashpoint than gasoline which makes it suitable for high-compression engines such as race cars. Anyone over 40 should remember the term engine “knock” or “pre-ignition” which is what premium fuel was designed to solve.
Vehicles “get by” with lower octane (more likely to “ping”) because knock sensors in modern electronic engine systems provide an “early warning” to the logic module which then retards your engine’s timing.
Retarded timing results in less fuel efficiency, especially during acceleration.
If an engine was built with much higher compression ratios it would have more power per gallon consumed. More power results in better mpg.
Here’s an idea: Go back to using turbochargers on 4-cylinder engines like Chrysler did in the 1980’s to raise and vary engine compression rates as needed. Using premium fuel, my Shelby Daytona would boost 15psi on a regular basis. What a ride! I had a car that would outrun almost eveything on the road and still got 35+ mpg. Once our local deputy sheriff borrowed it. Upon his return, he threatened to write me a ticket because he was SURE I deserved one.
Until we get the windmills churning, the methane extraced from the ocean floor, and the solar satellites flying here is the quick fix I propose:
1) boost compression ratios of engines to take advantage of high octane fuels by using turbochargers or superchargers. Of course, use smaller and lighter engines in proportion.
2) increase octane levels of gasoline to take advantage of the “knock-resistant” properties of alcohol.
3) grow and processing a LOT of switchgrass on the (new) old family farms.
The big minus to alcohol:
Cold weather starting!!!
Better hide a can of Ether under the front seat! 🙂
cheese — I would just add a bump to twin turbos — get rid of turbo lag. Americans don’t know how to drive, anyway. They’d kill themselves trying to get out of the way of something coming their way. Can you imagine a nation with no perception of defensive driving being able to anticipate?
Biodiesel at the pump! Amazing!
The Brazilians have it right. We could too.
When Rudolph Diesel invented the diesel engine back in 1898, he worked closely with George Washington Carver to make this new invention, unveiled at the 1900 World’s Fair, able to be run on peanut oil, mixed with a small amount of grain alcohol.
Carver was working on new uses for seed oils, and met Diesel. The rest is history. We should be looking at seed oils more as a source of renewable, less polluting energy, and this could be an excellent source.
I love Biodiesels. A friend has an old Mercedes he runs on waste oil, or home made biodiesel, and it smells like popcorn going down the road. A much nicer odor than that of the current petroleum based product. And no smoke, just water vapor! Much lower emissions too. I just wish they would make it available in the States.
Cold weather starting ??
All the flex-fuel vehicles possess a small auxiliary gasoline tank. The gasoline is used automatically in low temperatures, only for the start of the engine.
(with help of google language tools)
Anderson