Republican presidential candidate Rudy Giuliani forcefully reaffirmed his support for abortion rights on Friday and argued that his divergence from conservatives on the issue should not disqualify him from being the eventual GOP nominee.
“This is a matter of deep and profound judgment,” he said in a speech at Houston Baptist University. “It’s a matter of morals. It’s a matter of your interpretation of how laws should operate, your interpretation of how respect for the rights of others should operate. But in a country like ours … I believe you have to respect their viewpoint and give them a level of choice. I would grant women the right to make that choice.”
Sam Brownback, said Friday that an abortion rights Republican would have trouble winning the nomination. His comments echoed those of another candidate, Sen. John McCain of Arizona.
“It is a pro-life party, with a pro-choice wing,” said the Kansas senator, who spoke during a taping of Iowa Public Television’s “Iowa Press” program. “I think he has great trouble winning off of that position.”
I’m still hoping Rudy gets the nomination as the least bad Republican candidate. I would then hope he loses in the general election because all of the Democrats are better candidates, both more in line with my thinking and more experienced at politics.
Brownback still thinks the Earth is flat.
If Giuliani ends up sliding in the polls over this, it will prove how screwed up the whole primary process is. You have to be an extremist to win the nomination and a centrist to win the general election, which makes no sense.
The truth is this makes me respect Giuliani more. He is willing to stand up and tell people what he actually believes rather than pander to the crowd. The only oher candidate on the Republican side who is willing to do the same is Dr. Ron Paul.
Giuliani never had a chance. Appeal in the Northeast and the rest of the country is two different animals. He like McCain has a temper that’s hard or their handlers to keep checked. The press loves to show candidates throwing fits, over and over. You end up with bland made up personas instead of real people now.
The conservatives always yak about freedoms etc. Then why can’t women and couples decide if they want to go through with the pregnancy? Sometimes it’s better if the child isn’t born.
You guys seem to think that the far-right wouldn’t turn out in a national election to vote for someone that’s pro-choice over a Hillary or an Obama. He’ll come across as the lesser of two evils and get their votes.
As for the primary process, he’s the closest thing to a hawk going these days. That will earn him more votes that he’ll lose over the pro-choice stance.
Since it appears Rudy is smart enough to surround himself with good friends and advisers, he could go far. I don’t remember hearing any scandals about how he profited from 9/11 or how Halliburton got the contract to clean up NYC. Seems like a fairly straightforward guy, for a politician.
#5 Overwhelmingly abortion is used as birth control. I am sure we may disagree on this point, but I think that it is killing a child, not just a clump of cells. Also, couples don’t decide, given the typical dynamics of romantic relationships, one person is unilaterally deciding on abortion. Do I really have to do all of someone elses home work AGAIN to prove this sociological fact?
Also, my politics tend to be liberal, but this is one area where liberals are as blinded by their politics as badly as the conservatives are about the war in Iraq. Abortion on demand is bad policy. It should be changed. I still remain pro-choice, but I am very disheartened by the choices I see people make on this issue.
Note to the kids… If you have sex without birth control, you are CHOOSING to get pregnant. It is not an accident at that point.
This is one of the rare opinions I have that are not in a gray area at all. Pro-choice is a self-evident right. What a person (man or woman) does to their body, or has in their body, is nobody’s business but their own. An embryo or fetus has great potential, but is not self-sustaining. Technically, they’re parasitic, and dependent on their host. Thus, the host can make the decision whether the parasite lives or dies. That’s harsh, but that’s reality absolved of morality and religious implications.
If Giuliani’s words were actually, “I would grant women the right to make that choice.” – I think he misspoke. You can’t ‘grant’ somebody a right which they inherently already have. That ranks up there with ‘granting’ slaves their freedom. If freedom and self-determination are inalienable rights, freedom to choose is also an inalienable right.
Yes, abortion is usually applied as retroactive birth control. It’s a hard choice to make, and something that the person receiving the abortion will have to live with the rest of their life. However, it is their choice. What really sucks is that I’d rather see people fight for the life of the potential child. But I have no right to make that choice for them, I don’t and you don’t either.
Last, but certainly not least; I’ve spoke with a few women that had abortions before Roe vs. Wade. Fortunately, they survived their procedures. Unfortunately, reality works like this: drugs are illegal, people still find ways to get them; downloading bootleg copies of movies and music and applications is illegal, people still find ways to get them… If abortion becomes illegal again, people will still find ways to get them, but invariably through unsanitary and unsafe methods. Has everybody already forgotten about the “back alley abortions” that used to kill hundreds of women each year until Roe vs. Wade? WE, as a society, have no right to make illegal abortions the only choice.
#9 – Tom,
Very well said.
#8 – GregA,
Two points:
1) Birth control, even vasectomy, is not 100% effective. While vasectomy at about 99.9% effective (1 in 1,000 cases end up with recanalization), all non-permanent mechanisms are far less effective than this. And, rape victims don’t get a say in whether birth control is used. I think it still must be left up to the woman and anyone she asks for advice to decide.
2) The fetus at the time of most abortions is really not a developed human. Further, even a newborn baby is less aware and less capable of real suffering than, say, an adult pig. I am most definitely NOT advocating infanticide. However, unless you plan to advocate making it illegal to kill an animal with greater brain power than a fetus, you might want to be careful with your argument that it is killing a child. I think you may be overstating things by several orders of magnitude.
Folks, you cannot excersize full control of your own body. If you could, who would grow old and die off? Further you can’t do complex surgery on yourself. Therefore it requires the consent of society whether an individual can, say, have an abortion.
The point of logic I always get stuck at is basically the excersize of constraint. If you don’t want to be pregnant, *why* are you having sex in the first place? I know this sounds silly to some but doesn’t it come down to this? If you’re not willing to foot the responsibilities of having children you really shouldn’t be risking sex. I am willing as is my spouse so we do and we have (kids); we’re entitled. Not everyone should be.
The argument someone made about animals vs human children is ridiculous. That’s the kind of thinking that comes about when you regard human intelligence as simply being so many degrees above that possessed by animals. This is wrong thinking. The universe belongs to intelligence, and that adult pig never had the potential for developing intelligence beyond that of a human child . That deference for potential is the reason we spend money on schools. That deference is why the concept of slavery exists (and why slavery is wrong). And, it’s that intelligence that allows us the capacity to control our natural urges.
Anyway, Guiliani will be crippled a bit by his abortiion stance, but I don’t think it’s fatal. What the country needs are leaders who can actually govern. Much as I don’t like it, good governance means leaving decisions like abortion between doctor and patient (so long as the patient is actually a responsible adult anyway). The political issue is whether or not government is responsible for paying for abortion procedures, and the simple answer is, maybe, if it’s medically necessary and the patient has no medical coverage. Children shouldn’t have sex and neither should people who don’t want children.
#11,
Thanks for saying it for me. I was too angry to say anything after those cold blooded replies.
So.. If I don’t want children, I can’t have sex?
Good luck with that…
I’m no fan of any politian but at least Guiliani was willing to take a risk and say what he believes. Which is a far cry from the pandering that i saw from the rest of the sorry group the repugs are fielding.
That clip of them answering the question about evolution pretty much sums up their problem.
#11
If you don’t want to be pregnant, *why* are you having sex in the first place? … Children shouldn’t have sex and neither should people who don’t want children.
Humans are one of the few species that have intercourse just for the pleasure of it.
… we’re entitled. Not everyone should be..
No, you’re fortunate. Some people who are really great with kids can’t get any. And a lot of people who are shitty parents gets several kids who they can’t raise. It’s not about entitlement.
The bottom line is that you’re not the one to tell a girl if she wants to become a mother or not. If she and her boyfriend/husband don’t want it, they shall have the right to stop the pregnancy.
I firmly believe this should be a womens choise. That being said I also believe it is killing a baby. Now my daddy raised show dogs so I am very familer with culling. My problem is with these folks who have to deny what is being done. By the mental backfilps they have to do to convince themselves it is not a human. Sorry folks if you can not admit what you are doing maybe you should not be doing it. Hope I offended both sides. Truth
#15 – That being said I also believe it is killing a baby.
It’s the removal of an embryo or fetus, not a baby.
A fetus is no more a human then a head of lettuce is a Cesar Salad. Yes the lettuce has the potential to be a Salad but that will take a considerable amount of time and resources to make it thus. Fetuses are simply conglomerations of undifferentiated tissue, much like a polyp or tumor.
Whats more is that it is NONE of our business what other people do to their bodies or the things residing there in. Find a new hobby and get out of my and everyone else’s life you damn busy bodies!
That’s why anti-abortionists should support sex education. But htey don’t, which argues that their primary motivation is behavior control, not saving babies.
Is it really the case that people consciously use abortion as birth control? Its such a physically and emotionally painful process that you would have to be barking to want to go through with it, especially considering the range of more benign birth control methods available.
Your right #15 “backflips”