Los Angeles Times – June 6, 2007:
I’d heard about Saudi Arabia, that the sexes are wholly segregated. From museums to university campuses to restaurants, the genders live corralled existences. One young, hip, U.S.-educated Saudi friend told me that he arranges to meet his female friends in other Arab cities. It’s easier to fly to Damascus or Dubai, he shrugged, than to chill out coeducationally at home.
I was ready to cope, or so I thought. I arrived with a protective smirk in tow, planning to thicken the walls around myself. I’d report a few stories, and go home. I had no inkling that Saudi Arabia, the experience of being a woman there, would stick to me, follow me home on the plane and shadow me through my days, tainting the way I perceived men and women everywhere.
SAUDI men often raised the question of women with me; they seemed to hope that I would tell them, either out of courtesy or conviction, that I endorsed their way of life. Some blamed all manner of Western ills, from gun violence to alcoholism, on women’s liberation. “Do you think you could ever live here?” many of them asked. It sounded absurd every time, and every time I would repeat the obvious: No.
This is a long piece, but it is very interesting and well worth the read.
Yap. Our good friends the House of Saud does not allow any non-muslim church to operate in the Kingdom. Good friends of Bush Co and the American Power Elite. Our (lack of) an energy program damns GOUSA into the fate it has created for ourselves.
No 2 on my the list of terrorist supporting states.
Tiny Silver Fish
Facing Upstream
Going Downstream
In clear
Swift
Water
#2 – Mr. conFusion wouldn’t be able to make a good case either way, which is always the case with that hack.
#1 – Realistically, picking on Bush & Co. and not just saying “The American Government” is to miss the truth, that the whole system has split a hair between the countries who at least try to keep their populations in check and those that don’t.
From my point of view, this is more of a question of good and evil. I see people that wish to subjugate people based on sex (or race, or sexual orientation) as evil, period. No gray area, not qualifications.
Granted, that combination of left-wing and right-wing logic is a tough sell these days, but it seems to be the most straight forward way to assess people at a high level.
Long term, the question is what do we do with people who have this mindset? We can’t change them, and we don’t need them. It seems to me the humane thing to do would be to put them out of the misery which is their existence.
A hard rain is gonna fall.
I seem to remember this as one of the reasons to go to war with Iraq. We need to free their women from oppression, I think it was Laura Ingraham.
3. But at least you’d never subjugate them.
RBG
#5. Actually, a good argument can be made that the invasion set back the cause of women in Iraq. There are reports of local Shiite militias and governments attempting to impose Saudi-style restrictions on women.
Afghanistan is, of course, another story altogether.
#3–Bush Co has many long ties to Oil/House of Saud. Easy to Google and there is even a documentary film out that is pretty good on the subject. Actually, “Bush Co” may be more accurate than saying either “Power Elite” or “American Government” as those two groups have many other disparite interests?
Still, the story of Oil and GOUSA failure to be energy independent is the story of the downfall of our empire. Other issues not as glaringly obvious, documented, and curable absent the special interests having their way.
Yes, a long discussion could be had as to whether GOUSA can live with the Muslim religion, within or without our borders, or if a true war will have to be waged in 2-3 generations? Israel and France and the rest of Europe will (if not currently are) demonstrating the live issues.
Its a hard, hard world when idealistic liberal instincts and desires come slam up against one world religion. History is replete with what the only workable response is.
Maybe there is no need to worry. King Saud did say (paraphrased) “My Grandfather lived in the desert and rode camels. Today, we drive Mercedes and build skysrapers. My Grandson will live in the desert and ride camels.” You see, regardless of GOUSA lame and ineffectual and fraudulent energy and foreign policies, the World will run out of oil and change will be upon us.
If the Saudis quickly pulled their money out of the U.S. market, it would make the 1929 crash look like nothing. We do not just need them for oil.
Yes, the women suffer from oppression. I read the book “Princess” that described how bad things are. And sexually speaking, single men are just as oppressed as the women are.
I talked to an American who worked there, and the religious nazis grabbed him. Apparently, a foreigner got it on with one of their women, and they wanted all the other foreigners to view him being killed.
However, there are certain freedoms and benefits that women have in the Arab world that women here don’t. The family unit is much stronger because the government does not interfere to near the extent our government does.
And women here have a different prison, and that is to look like the woman on the cover of Cosmo. Because there are no such pictures in much of the Arab world, women are not judged as much on their looks , and they seem to have a higher self-esteem.
But we do need to get a little real here. The real women in the world that are being oppressed right now live in Iraq and Darfur. Standing in a different line at Starbucks is no big deal compared to being killed by a car bomb or having your village slaughtered. The average Iraqi woman is much worse off after we invaded Iraq than before.