EXPLORER News – News, Sports & Entertainment for Oro Valley, Marana & Northwest Tucson — Yes we love this sort of story on Dvorak Uncensored. Apparently the kid was charged with carrying a weapon. Who is running this school? The TSA?
What should a school do with a nearly straight-A student, who helped his Math Engineering Science and Achievement club win first place in a national contest and scored in the 97th percentile on the AIMS test?
If he happens to be carrying a small pocket knife by mistake, they suspend him from school.
At least that’s what happened to Tyler Robbins, 14, student at Amphitheater Middle School.
Amphitheater School District, like many school districts around the country, has a “zero tolerance” policy on violence, weapons and drugs.
A pen knife?! wow.
For as long as I can remember in school, my friends and I had jack knives at all times (just the little 2 blade swiss army ones) and in high school I carried a Leatherman (in it’s belt case no less).
I hate to think what would have happened to us on the days during hunting season when we had the skinning knives accidentally still in our coats and/or pants pockets.
Oh that math equation is easy to balance.
“zero tolerance” policy on violence, weapons and drugs is equal to “zero intelligence” policy on violence, weapons and drugs.
It’s a shame, it takes a Straight-A Brainiac child to illustrate obvious truths to Adult administrator in a teaching institution. This school gets a “F” for use of intelligence.
It seems unfair yes, but zero tolerance is zero tolerance. Remember that the whole “zero-tolerance” policy movement came about in the 90s because of parent pressure. Once again we see that what people said they wanted isn’t actually what they wanted. A good reason not to have a democracy.
“Zero tolerance” policies send a message – and that message reads, “there’s a problem, but I’m not competent enough to solve it – so I’ll start a policy that makes it look like I’m doing something!”
Sheer idiocy.
Sounds like someone at the school district needs to get assassinated.
What I don’t understand is why there is a focus on the student being an A student. Should we allow A students to break the rules once, but B students not?
Oh, a government school… Hmmm. Next time some other kid will know you have to stab the stupid moron that reported you. That’s what public school teaches you.
Zero tolerance = zero common sense
You people are all idiots. Knives should not be brought to school.
End of story.
bobbo, I agree with you much of the time – that said, I’m gonna pretend I didn’t read your #9 there.
• • • • • • • • • •
#6 – dan terestenyi
“What I don’t understand is why there is a focus on the student being an A student.”
That is correct. You don’t understand.
“Should we allow A students to break the rules once, but B students not?”
No one said a word about allowing anyone – A student, D student, dropout, school-bus driver – to break the rules at any time.
The point of the post is not “Why wasn’t he allowed to break the rules?”, it’s “Can you believe anyone would institute such a rule that mandates punishment for a completely respectable and responsible student who inadvertently violated the letter of the law, while being obviously innocent of violating the spirit and intent of the law?”
THAT’s what it’s about. His academic status is a proxy for his total lack of intent to misuse the knife. And the purpose of the rule is only to prevent misuse of knives. It is obvious he had no intent to violate the spirit of the rule. Therefore to punish him is totally unjust, and therefore a rule which requires punishing even innocent students is an unacceptably idiotic rule.
Understand now?
#6 – Why the focus? I suppose because it is glaringly obvious that this isn’t a knife wielding hoodlum. He’s a victim of bad policy and him being affected by the policy highlights the failure of the policy.
It’s like the kids suspended because their parents gave them some aspirin to take mid-day but the school has a zero-tolerance drug policy. The policy is blind, therefore unjust and idiot. It’s a lazy way to address a problem.
That, I guess, is why we focus on this kid’s grades, which we are assuming addresses his character.
#6 – #10 – Okay… Lauren said it better 🙁
10-11. Hypo===On a multiple choice test, A and B each answer the first 19 questions the same. On the final question, they split. Which one is right?
So–if it can be recognized as a knife, don’t bring it to school. Zero Tolerance, or a good rule uniformly applied? What exactly is a pen knife? Two inch blade? Why not four inches?
School is as much about learning to conform as it is anything else. Brainiac will be much more successful and happy if he learns how stupid authoritarian structures can be.
So bobbo; you’re saying: Public school = sheeple academy?
14==sheeple? Whats wrong with learning to get along with one another? Time and place for everything. The duality of man is that we have a herd instinct and a rogue instinct.
Balance.
bobbo, apparently reading is not one of your strong suits. This kid found the knife on school grounds and presumably would have turned it in as soon as possible. I have heard of situations where a student was actually suspended for turning in a knife they had found on school grounds.
Zero tolerance is idiotic and fosters intellectually lazy and conformist behaviour.
I am glad that I do not live in the US.
16–true, I didn’t pay much attention to that factoid. Maybe there should be zero tolerance for lying?
So, “to me” the error here is not the policy, but the enforcement. Absent egregious circumstances, seems to me confiscation, a warning, and parental counselling should be the institutional response.
See, Brainiac is learning already. When he turns to drug dealing he will know that “Its not mine” and “I forgot” will not be a good defense. I have faith in the lad’s ultimate success.
#13 – School is as much about learning to conform as it is anything else.
Yes… and as a parent, it was very hard to undue those bad lessons.
Conformity is for lemmings.
Oh, bobbo, bobbo, bobbo.
“Whats wrong with learning to get along with one another?”
Well, nothing. HOW somesoever, learning to get along with one another ≠ sheeplishly [
AS I WAS SAYING –
sheeplishly observing irrational, unjust rules, now does it?
18 & 19==You are making a basic error about “the workplace” and by extension society and as a result the balance we all need to find. Not every position can be filled by competent people. In fact, usually competent people are pushed out, or move on to better paying jobs or something new and challenging (aka I’m not qualified yet).
Get upset the McD cashier can’t do the simple math involved to give change? Who else would work for minimum wage plus 30 cents? Same with school teachers. Same with practically every human endeavor there is. Thats why “good ones” are to be treasured, they are rare.
So, you can’t expect institutions to deliver that individualized care you both argue for. Let your kiddies (and yourselves evidently) find the benefit from the sheeple institutions. Let them learn “in spite of” not because of these institutions. Otherwise, you teach them to expect everyone else to be looking out for them, when just the oppossite is true.
You can rail against the injustice, or learn to maximize your position in spite of it, but I’m repeating myself. Need to find a new thread to post the same thing.
By the way, should knives be allowed in school?
#21 – Since I actually know something about public schools, I’ll just disagree with you and move on…
By the way, should knives be allowed in school?
Never said they should be… I said zero tolerance is the policy of idiots.
Although, oddly enough, when I was in school, they were.
22—Oh please stay and detail. At post 18, you agree schools teach conformity then at post 21 you disagree about the main reason they do virtually implying they dont. You post just to disagree and then leave? Not up to your normal insightful postings. But time is a harsh taskmaster and I don’t demand your best all the time, I just relish it when on display.
And you likewise disagree to be what?—disagreeable? If you don’t think knives should be allowed in school then you are for zero tolerance but you say you aren’t. That makes no sense at all. Knee jerk reaction to the term used, rather than what the term means? Weak, or atleast without details, difficult to understand.
#23 – Your comment seemede to trash teachers, not schools. (if it didn’t, I misunderstood and apologize)
I’m not in the mood to get into a long winding discussion about why everybody needs to shut the fuck up if they want to criticize public school teachers as a group. I’m tired of the fight, and I’m right, and I’m done. But you probably weren’t picking that fight anyway…
The teaching of conformity is a by-product of an industrial era education model (not the intention of teachers) that is archaic and needs to change if we want kids to be competitive in a global market. We train them to march in line when that is exactly why we are failing as a nation… because we march in line.
If you don’t think knives should be allowed in school then you are for zero tolerance but you say you aren’t.
Just because I am not in favor of kids carrying knives in school doesn’t mean I’m a simple minded idiot who can’t recognize a valid reason why this kid was in possession of a knife. It’s a pen knife. Ever carry a pen knife? It’s pretty easy to not realize you are carrying one. I’ve washed more than a few pen knives that were in jean pockets.
The kid saw a knife, was thoughtful enough to believe that younger kids would find it and decided to give it to the school principal (because he was obviously aware that knives are dangerous and disallowed) but when he arrived he had already forgot he had it (how hard is it to believe a 14 year old might be distracted and forget something. He might gave seen a hint of cleavage on a girl or something). So, upon remembering it, he get whacked.
Nothing in that article leads me to question this kid’s statement or character, nor do I believe does the principal. So why punish him? Because they let the rule think for them. That’s a bad harbinger of things to come and letting these policies stand will surely be on of the straws that breaks the camels back.
It is wrong to punish kids for doing the right thing and zero tolerance is lazy authority and not deserving of recognition.
Now, this obviously didn’t happen to my kid because no one got hurt or arrested after I got involved when they punished him.
Now… Let’s have another round of restating the same opinions with different words…
24– “Now… Let’s have another round of restating the same opinions with different words…” === or lets do somethig different. You come to a discussion blog, why again?
So, ok. we all have subjects we have discussed too much. Best to leave those subject areas alone.
What I see from your more detailed post, and not from the short ones, is that we come from different fact, and different definitions of words.
Tedious to straighten that stuff out. I agree. Since you did not address it, I will assume unless you post otherwise that you agree with the baseline of my position===schools should have a zero tolerance for knives brought to school and the punishment (nee response) should be confiscation, warning, and counselling.
#25 – No… This kid did not violate the spirit of the rules. He doesn’t need the knife confiscated because he intended to turn it over in the first place. He doesn’t need a warning because he obviously not only knows the rules, but he has the good sense and judgment to know why and to know when it it is right to circumvent the rules. He surely needs no counseling either, because he’s a level headed kids with common sense and a bright future. But, he’s 14, so he is subject to the rules of being 14, that is that its easy to forget stuff when you are 14.
Airport security has a zero tolerance policy (in your sense of the words) on knives, but I wasn’t punished when I forgot I was carrying a 6 inch folding Buck knife in my carry on bag. I was merely asked to mail it to myself at home or give it up. I opted to mail it to myself.
I am using zero tolerance as school administrators use those words. That is, to mandate a harsh punishment for any infraction of whatever the rule is whether the circumstance warrants it, or is even serious in any way.
26==Oh, well if thats the defintion of zero tolerance, I’m against it. I’m for good rules uniformily enforced and counselling family and kiddies as the normal first step for just about anything. Note counselling is a two way process where the school has a chance to learn and modify as well.
Sure am glad I’m not a teacher!!! I personally hate good rules uniformily applied. THATS for sheeple.
The bobbo love/hate meter is a long series of peaks and valleys. At the moment, it’s a peak 🙂
28—Love and hate. I’ve cried in the thralls of both of them. I prefer love, but am never sure of what I will get. Life is funny that way. Think they were nicely displayed in Night of the Hunter as well as Cape Fear (?).
The school had some discretion in his punishment. They decided that nine days was a fit punishment. That is where the zero tolerance policy went out the window.
The punishment must fit the crime in order to be effective. People are no longer hung for stealing a loaf of bread simply because society recognizes the punishment is too draconian. Suspending a kid for two weeks because of an infraction like this only brings similar contempt for the whole process.
Where the kid found the knife is unimportant. That he kept it is.