So, I’m doing some reading online last night and these two articles – from Reuters – are side-by-side.
Ahmadinejad says Iran, U.S. not headed for war and Cheney mulled Israeli strike on Iran
Article 1:
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said in a U.S. television interview on Sunday that Iran did not need nuclear weapons and his country was not heading for war with the United States.
Asked whether Iran and the United States were heading toward conflict over Tehran’s nuclear ambitions, he said: “It’s wrong to think that Iran and the U.S. are walking toward war. Who says so? Why should we go to war? There is no war in the offing.”
Article 2:
Vice President Dick Cheney had at one point considered asking Israel to launch limited missile strikes at an Iranian nuclear site to provoke a retaliation, Newsweek magazine reported on Sunday.
A military response by Iran could give Washington an excuse to then launch airstrikes of its own, Newsweek said.
Maybe we can get both these guys on camera at the same time and see if they come up with the same answers?
#20, ZeOverMind:
“It wasn’t Newt Gingrich and the GOP grabbing Bill Clinton’s cock and shoving it into Monica’s mouth.”
No, it was simply Newt Gingrich and the GOP shoving their cocks into their mistresses and pages of the moment while at the same time hypocritically condemning Clinton’s lack of morals.
Apparently, a legal (if morally questionable) extramarital affair is worse than the thousands of dead US soldiers and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians we have directly or indirectly killed. Score one for moral relativity!
26 You want a good example of the utter perversion to which the right wingers have blindly fallen?
Bush would rather veto a bill expanding state health coverage to children, therefore REMOVING state health coverage from most children, than decrease insurance company profits one penny. His veto bill stop health coverage for poor children, and he happily will do that. Now that is perversion in it’s highest form. And the right wing has the gumption to compare that (the health of our nation) to a blowjob.
First of all I don’t consider Bush to be a “right winger” A true conservative in my own opinion is one that supports National Defense, believes in the rights of individuals and limited government and the necessity of balanced budget. Just because he’s using the military to achieve a political objective doesn’t make him a conservative in my book. As far as healthcare goes, I do depart from other conservatives because I do believe that in a country as wealthy as the USA is, we SHOULD provide basic medical care to everyone. I just don’t believe given the Democrats track record on Medicaid that they can do it and keep the costs contained. If this country goes bankrupt then it won’t matter what promises the government makes it won’t be worth a bucket of warm spit.
33 – The hypocrites in the Republican party have gotten their “comeuppance” and rightly so. Has the left been so bold to oust the hypocrits of their own?
For example, Jesse Jackson promoting the “Jena 6” as the 21st Century posterboys for Civil Rights. Come on now! They were a bunch of thugs that beat up some kid and got busted by the law. They weren’t exactly the same caliber of Civil rights icons being told to go sit in the back of the bus, yet the media is making the thugs out to be civil rights victims. Where’s the left’s moral outrage? I don’t see it.
But you prove my point beautifully. Keep up parroting the same rhetorical garbage that the Lefty Elites whispers into your ears and forget about doing anything meaningful.. like thinking for yourself.
ZeOverMind, the problem is that your opinions are very weak minded.
They are simply talking points…they are not your opinions. I have heard them over and over again since about 2004.
What you are saying is a conspiracy…because there is little facts to back it up. An entire network of chemical and biological weapons were moved to Syria…in the dead of night. WTF! The have read dozens of the declassified intelligence reports, peer reviewed journal report and various other public information sources and I have yet to see something beyond a simple postulation. It has been four years.
Second, I am sure that North Korea could very well be suppling nuclear weapon grade fuel to Syria. So what? Like this is something new. Every nation state wants to be a ABC/NBC power. Where is the definitive proof of the shipping of (large) working grade nuclear, chemical and biological arms to Syria from Iraq? Just make sure the source you cite is a peer reviewed journal and not some general information source and, or spokes piece of the current administration (i.e. like the Drudge Report).
You might want to actual take a long at the UN reports again. You know actually read them rather then hear Limbaugh and Hannity paraphrase them.
Lastly, my problem with your faith in the current administration is that they simply blame the last administration from everything from 9|11 to Saddam (without actually taking responsibility for anything). It is simply a matter of stating Clinton did it. This is just childish.
#34If this country goes bankrupt then it won’t matter what promises the government makes it won’t be worth a bucket of warm spit.
um, we already are beyond bankrupt, and actually the worst budget deficits the WORLD has ever seen were run with republicans in the white house, so can we please dispense with the myth that conservatives actually conserve anything?
now then, since we’re talking about iranians and not national health care, alliow me to point out that of course he’s making nice, we have our troops amassed on his border and his nukes aren’t finished — we need to give him a way to back down that will save face, otherwise he’ll keep it up till war breaks out, you gotta remember that he would love nothing more than to die a martyr.
people tend to forget that death threats only work with people afraid to die.
Awake, way to be asleep. Bush’s veto doesn’t take away health coverage for poor children, it preserves it. The bill he is threatening to veto would add more children and adults at higher incomes. The poor kids were covered when SCHIP was passed in the last decade.
#38 yeah god forbid that americans actually get something they want for their tax dollars
does anybody on this list who opposes govn’t healthcare actually pay their own insurance premiums in full from the open market?
i mean you buy direct from an insurance company without any group membership.
just curious, my hypothesis is that only people with employer-provided insurance are opposed to govn’t healthcare, and the fact that their numbers are dwindling rapidly explains the rise in interest in/support for govn’t health care.
3 – MikeN –
Wrong. The veto will stop the program from being continued because it will not be renewed, therefore cutting off the funds outright.
The expansion is necessary because the program has shown that it does not provide sufficient coverage in it’s current form, and needs expansion to be effective.
But Bush would rather cancel the program outright than see any expansion of benefits, his mentally-challenged idea of smaller government.
36 Lastly, my problem with your faith in the current administration is that they simply blame the last administration from everything from 9|11 to Saddam (without actually taking responsibility for anything). It is simply a matter of stating Clinton did it. This is just childish.
There is plenty of blame to go around. As far as my “faith” the only reason that I go along with the current action is because there is no one else out there with a credible way of actually handling this mess. The Democrats aren’t out there offering any but different version of “Cut and Run”. And being that we’re on the cusp of a Presidential election we’ll be sure to see more of the same garbage we’re hearing now. As far as Clinton goes I could give a rats ass as far as how much blame to assign him, to W. or to Saddam. What I do care about is knowing that the same cabal of cronies that were brought in by Bill may be brought in by Hillary.
As far as my sources go, I read the same sources that everyone else in the counrty reads. And I’ll go so far as to read the garbage that is posted on dailykos or moveon.org to know what they’re saying about the so called “truth” and make up my own mind.
Second, I am sure that North Korea could very well be suppling nuclear weapon grade fuel to Syria. So what?
Well a nuclear armed Syria getting pissed off at Israel is not something *I* am comfortable contemplating. Maybe you are. Maybe you’ve already drank the Kool-aid and don’t care what happens next.
It might surprise you that not everyone who disagrees with the political left is automatic “dittohead”. I don’t watch Fox News or listen to Limbaugh. Personally I don’t even consider that “news”
37: um, we already are beyond bankrupt, and actually the worst budget deficits the WORLD has ever seen were run with republicans in the white house, so can we please dispense with the myth that conservatives actually conserve anything?
No we are not bankrupt yet but we’re getting there. The day the dollar is no longer a reserve currency then I’ll say we’ve just about hit bottom. I will point out that the last balanced budget was passed by a Republican House of Representatives. Unfortunately 9/11 changed all that.
This little news article really pissed me off yesterday: “Israel asks U.S. foreign aid be paid in EUROS” –
http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/3689
now then, since we’re talking about iranians and not national health care, alliow me to point out that of course he’s making nice, we have our troops amassed on his border and his nukes aren’t finished — we need to give him a way to back down that will save face, otherwise he’ll keep it up till war breaks out, you gotta remember that he would love nothing more than to die a martyr.
people tend to forget that death threats only work with people afraid to die.
I can care less about saving his face. I want him to stop enriching Uranium. Suppose we do give him a way to “save face”? Whats next? How are we going to make sure he’s really stopped? Unfortunately I don’t think he’s anymore trust worthy then Saddam.
# 43 You didn’t get it, did you? It is a fake news, probably from The Onion.
#44 so basically you’ve made up your mind — war is the only answer.
you could have just said that and saved us all a lot of time.
46 #44 so basically you’ve made up your mind — war is the only answer.
you could have just said that and saved us all a lot of time.
I haven’t made up my mind. The next step depends on Iran.
45 # 43 You didn’t get it, did you? It is a fake news, probably from The Onion.
The Syrians were rather upset that the Israelis bombed them. Were the Syrians taking part in this fabrication too?
#43 I will point out that the last balanced budget was passed by a Republican House of Representatives.
and i will point out that it was that most hated of democrats, bill clinton that brought republicans to heel by shutting down the government until he got a balanced budget on his desk to sign — kinda wish gw had those kinda balls, don’t you?
and i will also point out that ghwb and reagan have their signatures on on a dozen budgets that drove us into the red, budgets that they had the power to veto.
oh and ghwb did in fact raise taxes
any more myths about fiscal responsibility you’d like me to debunk for you?
just admit it, the only difference between the pubs and the dems are spending priorities upon which neither shows any restraint.
call me dense, but I don’t see the conflicting statements that caused this post in the first place.
From Article #2
“Washington has been pursuing diplomatic efforts to persuade Iran to alter its nuclear program. It has refused to take military options off the table,…”
the threat of “military options” can be a powerful diplomatic tool. It doesn’t necessarily mean that war is the first option.
Further, they are from two ideologically opposed governments, Iran and America (not Iran and Republicans). Of course their answers are going to be different.
does iran and the us remind anybody else of two assholes squaring off the parking lot of a bar at 2 o’clock in the morning?
48 and i will point out that it was that most hated of democrats, bill clinton that brought republicans to heel by shutting down the government until he got a balanced budget on his desk to sign — kinda wish gw had those kinda balls, don’t you?
I’m well aware of that. Newt tried to shut down the government and pass a budget he wanted and got zinged on that. If you bother reading your constitution it’s the House of Reps that passes the budget. The President may propose a budget (this isn’t even covered in the constitution) and he’s got a lot of pull to get what he wants with his veto power. In the first 2 years of his Presidency the Democrats got overconfident. in the last 2 years of Bush Presidency the Republicans were just as guilty of being overconfident.
As far as who’s got stones, I would have respected Clinton more if he had pushed more to get Bin Laden and Al Queda when they attacked the WTC the first time in 1993. But he was more interested in poll watching then taking a gutsy move and pushing the Country to defend itself when it was really needed. As I see it, the unfortunate thing is Bush is left with cleaning up a foreign policy disaster thats gotten worse. My sense is that things could get better, but the Democrats are too busy pandering to the antiwar crowd for votes then taking any real leadership on the matter.
50 does iran and the us remind anybody else of two assholes squaring off the parking lot of a bar at 2 o’clock in the morning?
Very droll. Ever see two assholes start escalating a fight by bringing out their pistols? How about two nuclear armed assholes in the middle east bent on causing the apocalypse?
As much as you might hate Bush, I don’t recall him stating that he believes in the total annihilation of Iran or any other Country.
The problem ZeOverMind is that we are not going to war against Iran. The strategic mistakes that were made in Iraq pretty much put an end to this. A president with a 1/3 approval ratings is not going to get a Congress with a 1/5 rating and the public to go along with an attack on Iran. This is the only solution being offered by the Bush administration (well, outside of spec ops and, or a strategic strike).
If he would exercise his political powers which are granted to him through case law it would lead to a nightmare scenario (civil unrest). I think the idea is to keep this country unified and not try to move it apart by citing a risk that is a future what-if (and handicap in Iraq) rather than a true threat.
I don’t actually think Hillary Clinton is part of this problem, so I am going to refrain from comment. I really don’t want to be drawn into a conversation about the mistakes of the Clintons (because than we have to look back at H.W. Bush, Reagan, Carter).
I don’t actually read DailyKos, Move-on, drudge-report, news-max and the even more far out sites like prison-planet. I do browse them from time to time, but the most so-called mainstream source I read is probably the NY Times and the Washington Post. When I was refering to journals, I meant sources like:
Foreign Policy, Foreign Affairs, The American Political Science Review, Publius, Harvard International Review, World Policy Journal, London School of Economics Journal, Center for Strategic Studies and a number of law reviews from (Georgetown to Yale). Most of the ones I listed would be considered moderate journals, but there are a number of more neo and paleo conservative out there as well.
And yes, I too make up my own mind. I just don’t take people who don’t have academic degrees in political science, international studies and law as seriously as a do those that do (though I don’t dismiss their opinions outright either). I don’t think much on any of the sites that were talked about need to be given much credibility. I think credentials are very important to this kind of open dialog (at least for public sites that disseminate information).
>Syria question
Do you know how many countries are actively seeking NBCs? Do you know how many of them are a threat to the West? Worse, you do realize that some countries that have these weapons now are more of a danger to this country than the alleged Axis of Evil. As for Israel, I am more than confident that they are capable of depending themselves. They have a more than capable intelligence community, they have a powerful conventional military force and they already have ABC/NBCs at substantially higher numbers than any other country in the Mid East.
On a closing note, while we disagree I am glad to hear that you don’t get your news from Fox and in return I can guarantee you that I don’t get mine from DailyKos and, or Moveon.org.
For gosh sakes why would anybody trust a politician? When are Americans going to learn decent people just do not go into politics? That is true the world over. Only delusional self serving people run for office and in their delusion they think they can make themselves richer while making the world a better place. They are generally scum but there have to be a few exceptions. Don’t flatter yourself that you can tell the difference, or that your representative is the exception.
#35, ZeOverMind:
“But you prove my point beautifully…”
Actually, you proved your point yourself. But that is usually what happens when you create a strawman argument. If you would reread my comments, I never said anything about the left being innocent nor did I bring up anything about the Jena 6. Personally, I don’t know enough about that event to make a call one way or the other.
But, hey, if you want to avoid my counter to your argument, call me a Lefty Elite and an ignorant fool without any proof, then so be it.
#52, ZeOverMind;
“Very droll. Ever see two assholes start escalating a fight by bringing out their pistols? How about two nuclear armed assholes in the middle east bent on causing the apocalypse?”
Hmm, India, meet Pakistan. Pakistan, India. Well, shucks! It looks like MAD works! Got any other juicy bits of fear mongering?
“As much as you might hate Bush, I don’t recall him stating that he believes in the total annihilation of Iran or any other Country.”
He may not have explicitly stated it, but his actions would seem to imply otherwise, would they not?
Maybe we are looking in the wrong direction? How come our government and Fox news aren’t all over this tidy piece of news? Makes you wonder where these weapons that are killing US soldiers are REALLY coming from, given that there is no evidence that they are actually coming from Iran, just accusations.
About 45% of all foreign militants targeting U.S. troops and Iraqi civilians and security forces are from Saudi Arabia; 15% are from Syria and Lebanon; and 10% are from North Africa, according to official U.S. military figures made available to The Times by the senior officer. Nearly half of the 135 foreigners in U.S. detention facilities in Iraq are Saudis, he said.
Fighters from Saudi Arabia are thought to have carried out more suicide bombings than those of any other nationality, said the senior U.S. officer, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the subject’s sensitivity. . . . In the last six months, such bombings have killed or injured 4,000 Iraqis.
Note the lack of mention of ANY Iranians.
I think the gullible right wingers are being led by the nose in the wrong direction again.
56: You’re right. You didn’t mention any of those things. I however did mention that those Republicans that got on Clinton’s case were pretty much cashiered out of the Republican party. And it was the GOP’s downfall that they didn’t fully engage issues of political corruption. My point was that the Political Left in this country doesn’t bother addressing the issues of the Democrat’s hypocrisy and by resorting to political rhetoric. Give it time though. As I watch Nancy Pelosi’s stewardship of the House Representatives I see them making mistakes that got the GOP kicked out of power with even lower popularity ratings to boot.
Don’t get me wrong tho. As I look out the current roster of political candidates, I don’t see anyone out there who’s got the vision and the credibility to pull this country back together on the left or the right. The Problem I have with the democrats is you know they will cut and run.
58: Maybe we are looking in the wrong direction? How come our government and Fox news aren’t all over this tidy piece of news? Makes you wonder where these weapons that are killing US soldiers are REALLY coming from, given that there is no evidence that they are actually coming from Iran, just accusations.
I think you need to change your nickname to Asleep. I could find this news article from December of 2006. Or don’t you read the Washington Post?
http://tinyurl.com/2nylzt
“These are really serious people,” said one U.S. defense official, speaking on condition of anonymity. “They were the target of a very focused raid based on intelligence, and it would be hard for one to believe that their activities weren’t endorsed by the Iranian government. It’s a situation that is obviously troubling.”
One of the commanders, identified by officials simply as Chizari, was the third-highest-ranking official of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards’ al-Quds Brigade, the unit most active in aiding, arming and training groups outside Iran, including Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad, U.S. officials said. The other commander was described as equally significant to Iran’s support of foreign militaries but not as high-ranking.
[Please use TinyUrl.com for overly long URLs. – ed.]
I am not sure I would call it cut and run. They will internationalize the conflict through the UN and will leave a small, contingent force in Iraq. Most Republican candidates are also trying to distance themselves from the current Iraq strategy and if elected will likely follow much the same framework. As it stands now, President Bush has about a year and two months to change his current vision of democratic peace theory in Iraq.
What exactly do you believe will happen if we would, “cut and run,” as so many talk show host like to call it? I am just curious.
#52 hey hey hey — don’t put words in my mouth please — for the record, i don’t hate bush; i rather admire the man in a strange way — and i don’t hate conservatives; i rather agree with a lot of their stated core goals
i just think that gw’s policies have failed to achieve even his own stated goals and that proves to me that he is a poor leader
and i think that the reason conservatives spend so much time defending gw is because they have no accomplishments to be proud of
what’s worse is that W poor military plan for what to do after toppling saddam has left us so bogged down in iraq we can’t really afford to invade iran if we wanted to
not exactly the hallmarks of a brilliant tactician.
Grog, you have it backwards, Clinton stayed away from a balanced budget for as long as he could and shut down the government to avoid the spending cuts the Republicans were pushing. He eventually agreed to some quote unquote spending cuts that were really increases in spending. The eventual budget balance and surplus happened because money came in unexpectedly and faster than Congress and the President could spend it. They spent much more than what was agreed to in their budgets.
>The expansion is necessary because the program has shown that it does not provide sufficient coverage in it’s current form, and needs expansion to be effective.
Wow, expansion is necessary because expansion is necessary, such brilliant logic. Nevertheless the President has decided that limiting it to those most in need is best. As for your claim that all benefits are cut off unless he signs, somehow I think another appropriations bill more to his liking would pass.