Moved BACK to the top until it runs out of steam!
I was always told that Christianity was a monotheistic religion but I want to challenge that because clearly it is not. First the definitions:
- No Gods – Atheism
- One God – Monotheism
- Two or more Gods – Polytheism
First, I’m not even going through the “Holy Ghost” thing except to say that “Trinity” means 3 and 3 > 1.
Assuming that:
- God is a deity
- Jesus is a deity
- Jesus and God are individuals
Then God and Jesus are two and 2 > 1.
Therefore Christianity is polytheism.
Polytheism isn’t a matter of belief. I personally am a Realist and I don’t believe any of it. However when one objectively classifies religious beliefs based on the number of gods, I’m counting two. Some would count three, but either is greater than one.
The reference is the Bible. According to the stories Jesus and God are two individuals. God was in the Old Testament, Jesus was not. Jesus was born of a virgin, God was not. Jesus addresses God as a separate individual. They have different stories. They have different roles. That talk to each other the way separate people talk.
The bottom line is – they are both deities and they are two individuals. Therefore Christianity is a polytheistic religion.
I can’t wait for Mr. Mustard to respond.
Lets see here now…Nelly is pink, all elephants are pink, therefore…
Nelly is a pink elephant! Brilliant!
The way that Christianity gets around this issue is via the Doctrine of the Holy Trinity.
http://www.religionfacts.com/christianity/beliefs/trinity.htm
Catholicism uses the Dogma of the Holy Trinity, which is described in its Catechism as follows:
The Trinity is One. We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the “consubstantial Trinity”.83 The divine persons do not share the one divinity among themselves but each of them is God whole and entire: “The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, i.e. by nature one God.”84 In the words of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215), “Each of the persons is that supreme reality, viz., the divine substance, essence or nature.”85
Oh… I love this saying, “How can a toaster understand another toaster?”
Now there’s some research!
The Christian God is based on three manifestations, not three Gods. It is a monotheistic religion. Your odd math doesn’t change that.
Your logic seems superficially good, but alas, you haven’t done the research to understand what the Christians are doing.
Still and more odd: some Christians believe their God is truly different than the God of the Jews and the God of Islam. The ‘My God is better than your God’ is a truly shameful situation.
hey mperkel, Perkel is a jewish last name, isn’t it?
I thought so…
Obviously, the author has not done any religious study. It’s not at all that easy an explanation, though it pulls to the center of the current Romney debate. Um, Jesus is not the big G “God”, nor is he a small g “god. it’s all about “The Trinity” The Trinity is the doctrine that God is one being who exists, simultaneously and eternally, as a mutual indwelling of three persons: the Father, the Son (incarnate as Jesus of Nazareth), and the Holy Spirit. Traditional Catholics and most Protestants believe in the Trinity, some, such as Mormons, do not. You cannot say that Jesus is a god, any more than you can say Mohammed was a god.
Regardless, the God of Christians, the God of Jews, and the God of Mulsims is the same God. The differences all come from how we vernerate Her, rather than who.
In the Catholic Bible (I wouldn’t be surprised at all if the Evangelics edited out this piece) there’s a part where God tells his subjects that they should worship him as the only God because he’s a very jealous one; and that to me is proof that there are other Gods out there.
Outside of Catholic Dogma, Christianity is still a monotheistic religion.
Think of it like this. The world, as we see it, is in four dimensions. The standard 3-d we see with our eyes, and of course Time. The Trinity is much like that.
Look at some object on your desk, like a paper clip holder. We can ignore the concept of Time for this exercise….since while you’re looking at that holder, it will go through no substantial changes. However, it’s height is not a separate item, it is part and parcel to the whole holder. Now, think upon God. The Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit. These are three entities, if looked at individually. Much like height, width and depth. However, taken as a whole, they are a single item. One God, one paper clip holder.
According to some authors I’ve read, Hinduism is also technically a monotheistic religion. Each of the Gods they worship are all but part and parcel to the overall deity which has no name, but of which we are all a part. Therefore there is but one supreme being. It’s all a matter of perspective.
Be very careful here…
This is a very superficial and your reference of the bible is for words but doesn’t reference it for meaning.
i.e.
1. The Lord Jesus said to His disciples, “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.” (Matthew 28:19) Monotheism is clear in His words, “baptising them in the name.” He did not say “baptising them in the names of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.”
2. The apostle John very clearly confirms this understanding: “Those who testify in heaven are three, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit and these three are one.” (I John 5:8)
This subject cannot be dismissed or supported by a few paragraphs of text or a few passages from the Bible…
When are we going to see some Moslem bashing? Afraid they might blow you up or something?
you forgot all the lesser gods like Mother Mary, and St George, and St Andrew, and St Patrick, and St….
Christianity has more gods than the Greeks had.
More BS posted to the blog. What ever happened to impartiality? Exploring both sides of an issue prior to trashing it? I’ve found it’s a good way to NOT make an ass of yourself.
Mr. Dvorak, You can hire better help than the person who posted this article.
If the Three-Headed Cat can be one animal, I don’t see the problem with God in three persons being one deity.
One God, three persons. I think you better go back to Atheist Sunday school and brush up on the comparative religion thing.
[Duplicate comment. – Deleted. – ed.]
Jesus and His father are not the same thing. There’s God, and then Jesus, the son of God. Jesus is not God. The trinity belief is just a bunch of made up garbage.
I have Jewish parents. But I’m not a jew. I’m a Realist. I’m the founder of the church of Reality – a religion based on believing in everything that’s real.
multiple personality disorder?
The Trinity is One. We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the “consubstantial Trinity”.
To boil it down, Christians are pretty much making this shit up as it goes. Sort of religious Calvin-ball. Everything can be explained by mystical horseshit! Keep believing, and above all, keep tithing! But whatever you do, don’t think about it.
>>Jesus is not God.
Always good to get the “bloviating bullshitter” point of view from somebody who doesn’t know what the fuck he’s talking about.
[Duplicate comment. – Deleted. – ed.]
Actually, mperkel, your thoughts on this aren’t entirely original. Islam has said that Christianity is polytheistic for the same reasons you have listed. This is one of the main reasons why theologists on both sides have not been able to reconcile the two religions. Islam sees the Son and Holy Ghost as 2 separate gods from The Father that are being worshipped, whereas Muslims only worship Allah. Christianity sees itself as monotheistic for the reasons that people have stated earlier in this thread.
I like how mperkel is just trolling for response.
The Dvorak Amateur Theologian strikes again. Like an inept arsonist playing with matches in a swimming pool filled with gasoline. What’s the deal with this mope? Don’t like Christians? Okay, then lump it. Don’t like Jews, then lump it. I double-dog dare ya to go pick on muslims and see how much time they give you before they behead you for blasphemy, infidel!
Better yet, go pick on you lib-dem buddies who want to redistribute your wealth in the interests of everyone becoming equal…with Dvorak story posters being more equal than others, of course. The true hypocrisy of “enlightened liberalism.” BAH HUMBUG!
Thank God I’m an Atheist!
This reveals a fundamental flaw in cross-issue analysis. Take a “know nothing” like myself and the original poster and read the words with a common understanding.
Like, Jebesus, Gawd, and the Holy Ghost — cant really understand all that unless you read the dogma.
Same with Science! The Theory of Evolution fer instance. Read that with common language and its just a theory==like any other one. Might be true, might not be. You have to understand the language within its own tradition and definitions to find out what a theory such as evolution really means.
But gawd is a puzzler. He is one and three at the same. Father and Son at the same. Knows everything, but gives us free will at the same time. Causes everything to happen just the way it does, but he does not cause evil. He made evil from nothing, and could wipe evil out, but he keeps it to teach us lessons. He is all loving, but has created hell for those he chooses to keep uniformed.
Yep, you gotta understand what the words “actually” mean.
Im sorry but Christianity has always been about stuck up religious groups. Is it me or is their more violence about religion then anything else? Will a differing religious war destroy earth? Religion has done anything but bring calm in some parts of our world.
Now I am not saying you should not believe in a God,a spirit or something else. I am just saying we don’t respect others beliefs anymore.
Good for you!
Most of Christianity believes that Jesus and God are the same being and you are right. The bible is clear that they are distinctly difference personages. You have figured out for yourself what all of Christendom has not either wanted to recognize or been able to recognize. People should study the bible and see for themselves what is the truth about God and his purposes.
christianity – so easy target, assholes.
I’d like to see you post something about muslim religion or jewish religion – what, afraid they’d blow you up or call you antesimte? Thought so, assholes.
This is all getting a little too complex…
Christianity is the mono one because Jesus is God’s son and the Holy Spirit is God’s power.
Three deities but still one God. Im against Christianity as much as the next person but this is easy enough to see without delving too deep.