Moved BACK to the top until it runs out of steam!
I was always told that Christianity was a monotheistic religion but I want to challenge that because clearly it is not. First the definitions:
- No Gods – Atheism
- One God – Monotheism
- Two or more Gods – Polytheism
First, I’m not even going through the “Holy Ghost” thing except to say that “Trinity” means 3 and 3 > 1.
Assuming that:
- God is a deity
- Jesus is a deity
- Jesus and God are individuals
Then God and Jesus are two and 2 > 1.
Therefore Christianity is polytheism.
Polytheism isn’t a matter of belief. I personally am a Realist and I don’t believe any of it. However when one objectively classifies religious beliefs based on the number of gods, I’m counting two. Some would count three, but either is greater than one.
The reference is the Bible. According to the stories Jesus and God are two individuals. God was in the Old Testament, Jesus was not. Jesus was born of a virgin, God was not. Jesus addresses God as a separate individual. They have different stories. They have different roles. That talk to each other the way separate people talk.
The bottom line is – they are both deities and they are two individuals. Therefore Christianity is a polytheistic religion.
#57 sounds like one of those adventists or whatcha-ma-call’em knocking to my door every once a while;
next time shall i shoot’em for trespassing on my property and we’ll see if Mustard is no more on dvorak?
#33 Mister Mustard
“If mama’s a Jew, so are you!”
Are you a bigot or are you just uneducated?
“Being a Jew” means you practice the Jewish faith. It has no relation to your ethnicity
#42 Mister Mustard
“Tsk, Boboli. Blame it on the Jews. ”
You have a lot in common with Hitler.
“THEY are the one who use the same word for believing ”
You don’t know any Jews do you? No Jew I know calls an Israeli Christian a Jew or anyone who does not practice Judaism a Jew.
I grew up with my mother and step father, who are Jewish, My biological father is Catholic. I have been baptized and I have had a Bar Mitzvah
I am NOT a JEW. I am a of no religious persuasion. I let that a long time ago. I am not sure what I believe as far as god but it doesn’t fit into any religion I know of. I used to call myself a Jew but I was ignorant, much like you, to the fact that since I no longer practiced it is improper to refer to myself that way.
Now according to Hitler I would be grouped with the Jews. So basically you and Hitler agree.
Jesus is *not* God, according to the Bible anyways, read Colossians 1:15, it says (about Jesus) “He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation.” Now, if Jesus was the first thing created by God, how are they the same person? Where in the Bible does it say they joined together? I quoted the Bible, you do the same.
60–Excellent Mustardo, as you say:
“However, it takes a very “special definition” to exclude all the meanings except the one you’re interested in.”
and you admit being a Jew can be by choice, and therefore to be “not a jew” by choice, and yet you will choose the one of many defintions you wish in order to post like a thug?
Why choose the fascist definition rather than the christian one?
first the trinity is about the relationship with the divine.
next, Hebrews, roughly translates to refugees, so the question of ethnicity is as melting pot as is the the story of humanity.
Yahweh was the thunder god of Mt. Sinai – as to the polytheistic origins of the One True God, well lets just it’s like an election with 72 candidates. But what is lost on most of the discussion is how much slips between arguments related to religious history and World History. Heaped up in a wreck of disarray at the bottom of the slippery slope is the efforts to create meaning, the desire to understand cosmologically, and the world of analogy that any esoteric study attempts to communicate back to the common language we try to share; Lingo, IT’s A Bitch!
To throw a real wrench in the works, Israel had been imaginal, never literal until earthly wisdom chose to escalate the eschatron and mark it on a world map.
How did Jim Croce put it, Oh Yea:
You don’t tug on Superman’s cape
You don’t spit into the wind
You don’t pull the mask off the old Lone Ranger
And you don’t mess around with Jim,
It’s all a bunch of bullying, authoritarian political wrangling to cover fear and greed.
The Pagans Understood at the heart of a cold hard winter or days of the longest nights if we were to survive – and not kill each other out of cabin fever stir crazies we needed the reminder of community cheer – and for those who remembered to look up at the stars – you could see we were at a place in orbit that was moving back to longer days. the real meaning of Christmas – I can understand how realists might question the authenticity when true colors are shown when all that matters are the spending numbers on “black” Friday or Monday, whatever – and the origins of Christmas in the cosmology of religious views – it’s relevance to those of other world views – the convolution of the simple.
Looking for blame is just part of the Stir Crazies – it will pass. Cheer UP – the nights will be getting shorter soon.
Mister Mustard
Here a question for you.
What land do Jews come from?
#59 – No, the others wouldn’t be strictly montheistic since, in Judaism and Christianity (and even Islam, on this point) the belief is that God created those other supernatural beings. The are more than “natural” but not gods in the same sense that God is. Odin, etc. are all gods, even if one only worship one god as their patron/matron. (What we call monalatrous, believing there are lots of gods but only choosing to worship one.)
#62
“My mother is Jew, I even had bar mitzvah, but I am not a Jew”
:O
Clearly your shrink appointment must be long overdue!
>>Are you a bigot or are you just uneducated?
Naw, unlike you, I have a dictionary.
>>“Being a Jew” means you practice the
>>Jewish faith. It has no relation to your
>>ethnicity
You must be one of those guys with the “special definitions” that Scottie was talking about.
>>You have a lot in common with Hitler.
Wow! Now there’s a compelling argument. I’ll bet you were on the debate team in junior high, huh?
>>You don’t know any Jews do you? No Jew I
>>know calls an Israeli Christian a Jew or
>>anyone who does not practice Judaism a Jew.
Oh, I know plenty of Jews. Some from Israel, some from Noo Yawk Schitty, and plenty from elsewhere. And even though most of them do not “practice Judaism”, they almost ALL call themselves Jews. Except for the anti-holy-roller adherents of the Atheist faith, who have their panties in such a twist over the idea that anyone would mistakenly associate them with a religion that they deny Mirriam-Webster.
>>Now according to Hitler I would be
>>grouped with the Jews. So basically you
>>and Hitler agree.
That was Scottie who said you’d be on the wrong side of the concentration camp fence. So I guess he’s the one who basically agrees with Hitler. But do you really think the only thing a WWII German Jew had to do to escape the ovens was to claim he or she “did not practice Judaism”?
Jeez. Go get a dictionary.
http://tinyurl.com/2mpnar
#57 – MM,
But, it’s so much more fun my way. Besides, the whole concept of original sin is the real perversity in the situation. So, if you’re looking for a perv, look up the schmuck that put that load of crap into the bible.
#58 – PVC,
You could try. Perhaps you should try. Perhaps you’d make fewer typos and other grammatical errors. Perhaps you’d even be able to make a single point about the actual content of the post to which you refer.
#60 – MM (again),
Actually, it’s called being context sensitive. Most of us can infer from a statement like ‘I have Jewish parents. But I’m not a jew.’ that the author probably means, that s/he is of Jewish culture but does not believe in the religion. I think that was actually pretty clear in this case. I agree that there are cases where people are not so clear. This just wasn’t one of them.
LOL, no, if yo mamma a Jew, you a Jew in the eyes of the Jews. Old, old doctrine.
As for the Virgin Mary, has anyone found a reference to her being a virgin that predates the 13th century? (The “age of the pious fraud”. Shifting chapters over into the apocrypha did more than just remove the genealogies, it removed a number of very questionable additions to the Bible. And some that were embarrassing to the authorities of the time.)
#66
I’ve been told there are few millions of them in the land of Auschwitz, is that corect answer you expected?
>>What land do Jews come from?
Canaan, originally. As an ethnic group.
>>This just wasn’t one of them.
Sure it was, Scottie. Most of the Jews I know don’t have any particular interest in eternal salvation, but I don’t think I’ve ever run into anyone who said “I have Jewish parents but I’m not a Jew”. Maybe “but I do not have religious beliefs” or something, but since being a “Jew” is an ETHNOreligious state, it’s kind of hard to deny that you are one.
#43, I am merely stating that the God of Abraham is the God of the Jews and the God of the Muslims. And, by extraction, the God of Christians.
Islam, Judaism, and Christianity trace back to Abraham.
The fact that Muslims do not believe Christian theology is immaterial.
#70 when there is nothing else left – use the “grammar” argument? that clearly wont fly with me , so here it is slower:
n a h, y o u r e j u s t a n i d i o t
The trinity is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit….
It depends on what “is” is.
So, at one point was it a Polytheism religion, then they made up the Trinity stuff so they could be Monotheism?
>>So, if you’re looking for a perv, look up
>>the schmuck that put that load of crap into
>>the bible.
Gosh, Scottster, if you’re going to try and make some perv point out of Adam and Eve partaking of the forbidden fruit, you need to get laid more!
#33.
I thought people can denounce their religion if they wanted to change? You know, be born again or whatever.
#79 they sodomized the snake, didn’t they?
Sinn Fein said:
“…and blasting 3000 people in office buildings is not stupid, right, Mr. Specious Argument himself?
Son, a specious argument is the one you use to invade a country and kill tens of thousands of innocent men, women, and children, even though it had nothing to do with “blasting 3000 people in office buildings”.
So here is a SERIOUS question:
why does the Catholic church have the trinity to begin with?
I can understand virgin birth because the Early Fathers HATE women and sex and think pleasure is a dirty thing==hence, no sex in the birth of Jesus.
Other religious dogma have twisted logic to them as well, but why the trinity? What function does it serve/reveal other than making shit up that doesn’t make any sense so that faith alone as directed by Church Authorities is the only thing that can save you?
#80 If a black person said “I had african-american parents, but I’m not black” would it make sense to you?
>>I thought people can denounce their religion
>>if they wanted to change?
Sure, they can denounce their religion. They can’t deny their ethnicity though.
84–ever seen a white person born of two light skinned african-americans?
One thing about the Skin Head types I have never understood==if white blood is so special, how come one Sixteenth of white blood doesn’t make the person in question white?
Kinda disrespectful of white blood to think it can be polluted by mere mixing for 3 generations? I mean, is it powerful stuff or not?
saints were created as an institution because people like polytheism and in this way the early catholic church found a nice way give people what they wanted without threatening their authority.
so you can have your little chapels to st. so-n-so and you can appeal individually to the three flavors of god or even to mary, all the while seeming to worship only a single god.
what a bargain!
#79 – MM,
No. I was making the point that the idea of original sin is a perverse idea. There is nothing sinful about sex. Any idea that sex is filthy is even more perverse than the idea that filth is sexy.
>>and you admit being a Jew can be by choice,
>>and therefore to be “not a jew” by choice,
>>and yet you will choose the one of many
>>defintions you wish in order to post like a
>>thug?
Saying that a Jew is a Jew is “posting like a thug? You must have a very special definition of thuggery.
If you think ethnic Jews can’t be identified by their DNA, I suggest you go back and take a freshman high-school biology course. Makes no nevermind what they “believe”.
As Mister VeryCorrect said, “If a black person said “I had african-american parents, but I’m not black” would it make sense to you?”?
Ok Mr. Mustard may be correct kind of.
I called my fathers Rabbi. She said it really depends on who you ask. But allot Jews consider anyone born of a Jewish mother or anyone who converts to be Jewish.
The I asked if she considered me a Jew and she said yes.
Mr. Mustard
I apologize for my attack.
But you have to admit with comments like “Blame it on the Jews.” you can see how that may dig up a few issues for those of us that descend from Jewish ancestry and that your tone is one that was very prominent in Nazi Germany.
BTW I have many Jewish friends from grade school. They all still practice their faith. None of them consider me a Jew. Most call me a Pagan. lol