Moved BACK to the top until it runs out of steam!
I was always told that Christianity was a monotheistic religion but I want to challenge that because clearly it is not. First the definitions:
- No Gods – Atheism
- One God – Monotheism
- Two or more Gods – Polytheism
First, I’m not even going through the “Holy Ghost” thing except to say that “Trinity” means 3 and 3 > 1.
Assuming that:
- God is a deity
- Jesus is a deity
- Jesus and God are individuals
Then God and Jesus are two and 2 > 1.
Therefore Christianity is polytheism.
Polytheism isn’t a matter of belief. I personally am a Realist and I don’t believe any of it. However when one objectively classifies religious beliefs based on the number of gods, I’m counting two. Some would count three, but either is greater than one.
The reference is the Bible. According to the stories Jesus and God are two individuals. God was in the Old Testament, Jesus was not. Jesus was born of a virgin, God was not. Jesus addresses God as a separate individual. They have different stories. They have different roles. That talk to each other the way separate people talk.
The bottom line is – they are both deities and they are two individuals. Therefore Christianity is a polytheistic religion.
Misanthropic Scott # 88 – Original sin has nothing to do with sex. It has to do with Adam and Eve disobeying God (and then, in some Christian theologies, that all humans are subsequently born sinful).
So, not about sex at all.
#71 – Matthew and Luke have narratives about the virginity of Mary and the conception of Jesus. These are 1st century CE texts. (The Immaculate Conception, which refers to *Mary’s* conception, is later, but still as early as the 4th century CE.)
#89 Mr. Mustard
“As Mister VeryCorrect said, “If a black person said “I had african-american parents, but I’m not black” would it make sense to you?”?”
Really man you need to think before posting such things. Do you even see how offensive that could be?
#86 you’d have to ask that your buddy-in-thinking, Adolph Hitler.
When it comes to describing, even Barack – half white half black – needed lately real black Oprah to confirm his blackness to american blacks because he wasn’t sure their votes, so make whatever you want from mixing ‘light-skinned african-americans”, but clearly if such white-skin person would have a natural afro s/he won’t be considered white.
Race is not just a skin color, same as ethnicity is not just saying “I am (or I’m not) a Jew” LOL
You hit right to the heart of the problem with christianity and its claims to be a monotheistic religion. In fact you even left someone out! Don’t forget about the holy spirit! That makes three “gods”. But oh do the christians have an answer for everything. They will tell you that each is equal in nature but separate in responsibility, that there is the hypostatic union which allowed jesus to become a man and the doctrine of the trinity and bla bla bla…I could go on for hours. I have made a career out of debunking the fraud that is christianity and I can tell you that it would take a hundred lifetimes to study all the lies in the christian church. There is a spider web of created theology to cover up and explain previous theology. It can and will go on forever. Very good post.
#55
The H20 examples is not a good example for the H20 can become all the parts. The Trinity is 3 persons that don’t interchange depending on the heat and cold.
Mustard, do you “see” how you flip back and forth between using jew as a religious choice and a non-choice ethnic catagory?
Very sloppy thinking==as exemplified a bit more subtly by the racial question. “Science” does not admit to race, knowing it is a “cultural” artifact.
You tell me, what will Tiger Woods kids be? and why not let them choose for themselves rather than some other group imposed definition?
>>why does the Catholic church have the
>>trinity to begin with?
It’s not only the Papists, Bobbi. Most of us Christians believe in the Holy Trinity. As to why they “have” it….why is the sky blue? Why is fire hot? (and no, I don’t mean the physical basis of blueness and heat, I mean why is it that way to begin with?). It just is, as it was in the beginning, it is now and ever shall be. Just like the Holy Trinity.
Mr. Mustard
“why is the sky blue?”
It isn’t.
“Why is fire hot?”
Hot is a relative term.
LOL
Mr. Mustard
“It just is, as it was in the beginning, it is now and ever shall be.”
Ah NO. No. and NO
bobbo, we’re not talking about tiger woods’ kids, and the “potency” of white blood. nor are we talking about the kids of Jews who marry Africans, or Arabs, or Australians, or any other ethnic/ racial mixtures.
If you really think that being Asian (in the “Oriental” sense) or Black or White or a Jew is something that you can just dismiss by saying you don’t believe that you’re one, I submit that your anti-religiousity is getting in the way of YOUR critical thinking.
In any case, this is a thread on the alleged polytheism of Christianity, not race relations.
I’m so tired of hearing from christians that “it just is”. I don’t care what your faith is, but when the evangelical missionaries come to me and are harshly rebuked and proved wrong, they love to just turn to “because it just is” or “da bible say’z so” (damn redneck missionaries)
#94 yeah, you hit it right in the bulls eye, Mister Rabbi.
We all know that your religion and your ethnic group is so supreme to any other, that we are really ashamed of the damned christianity, islam, and all other…
But what would you teach your jewish believers if everyone becomes jewish? Ever thought of that?
If there will be no more ‘non-believers’ left to legally (according to your old scrolls) cheat upon, no more ‘non-believers’ to make profit of off, really what will happen to your “gesheft” if there are no more “goy”?
Your whole ‘supreme’ religion is based on existence of other religions (the non-believers) without whom you can’t exist 🙂
Mr. Mustard
“in the “Oriental” sense”
You really need stop posting such things. It really doesn’t help your case when you are called a bigot.
#102…If everyone became Jewish? Lets be honest, the christians could never hope to be so perfect. I care about Jews and protecting them from christians, so your point is really moot. I’m sure that there will always be gentiles to cheat and make a profit from…so I’m not worried 😉
>>It really doesn’t help your case when you
>>are called a bigot.
Doesn’t really hurt it either, considering those who are doing the name-calling.
I used “Asian (in the Oriental sense)” to distinguish from the use of “Asian” to describe people from Asia (Russians from west of the Ural Mountains, Indians, Siberians, Bengalis, and all the other “Asians” who aren’t what people mean when they say “Asians”, but people with an epicanthic fold who used to be called “Orientals”.
Well, my first thought was that the trinity had pagan roots as many things religious do. But a little google turned up a short read:
http://tinyurl.com/35dewa
affirming the concept is NOT IN THE BIBLE and came later–ie, its political.
Interesting, if god did exists, I would take the trinity as do the Jehova Witnesses. The Mormon’s have their own take as well, which I didn’t understand at all.
You know, when you totally make stuff up, the details can be quite perplexing.
What if god revealed himself in a sentence rather than in a book?
“I exist and I love you.” Would that be enough for anybody??? Its often said that the more false a thing is, the more words it takes to say. Tax code kind of thing.
Satan is a god. Therefor…
Just for fun, I’ve read hints that the original religion Abraham followed had two gods, one male and one female. 8D She got the boot somewhere along the way.
That was about the time Abraham got kicked out of Babylon (Iraq) for “magical goats” that changed hair color when they got wet.
#104 OK, but when the christian church care about protecting christians from Jews, or islamic leaders care about protecting muslims from Jews, I bet you are first to yell out loud “ANTISEMITISM” 😀
Thats the main dfference between christianity and partially islam (the human-friendly islam of the past) versus religious jews: you use ‘our’ (I am atheist, by the way) ‘openness’ for harbouring other religions against us every time you can.
Have you ever thought why Jews are the least liked ethnic group throughout entire world?
Youre not going to tell me that the entire world is wrong, are you? 😉
““I exist and I love you.” Would that be enough for anybody??? Its often said that the more false a thing is, the more words it takes to say. Tax code kind of thing.”
-KUDOS #106, try earning a degree in christian theology…I could never write such a good fairy tale. There is a theology for everything and a theology to explain the theology.
Mustardo–the trap door is open and you continue to be caught. You say:
“If you really think that being Asian or Black or White or a Jew is something that you can just dismiss by saying you don’t believe that you’re one, I submit that your anti-religiousity is getting in the way of YOUR critical thinking.”
I an not aware there is an Asian, Black or White religion. There is a Jewish religion. And one chooses to hold to the Jewish faith or not, regardless of what one’s parents believe and regardless of what the person believed “once upon a time.” I can be jewish on Moday, and atheist on Tuesday. Thats the religious aspect.
As to race and ethnics==thats cultural as made clear by Tiger Woods kids. It takes a “religious” type of dogmatic non-think to pose that 1/16th jewish blood makes one Jewish whereas 15/16th german blood still leaves you Jewish? How “scientific” does that sound?
Mr. Mustard #105
The “epicanthic fold” was not an limited to, in your words, “Orientals” of Asia nor do or did all people living in the Orient have an epicanthic fold. So the term “Orientals” is not only offensive but also incorrect.
#106 when you die, you’ll either get your proof of god’s existence, or you won’t – but certainly you’ll know one day sooner or later 😉
If you want me to I will, I have no shame ;-)and I will tell you that I could give a damn what happens to the rest of the world or what the world dose as long as it stays away from trying to evangelize to Jews. We have a covenant with G-d and that is our concern, whatever you do (as long as it’s not near me) I applaud! As far as I know I have yet to see a Jew show up at a christians door with pamphlets and a “good word” so yes, I am devout against protecting Jews from christians. If you come after Jews, yes, you are an anti-Semite. Sorry, but that’s the way of the world 🙂
#102 – PVC & #104 Rabbi,
You’re both totally fucking racist. You do know that, right?
MM,
You’re balancing on the edge yourself.
Funny how religion loves to divide people up into sects. And, of course each sect is superior to all other sects.
Here’s a clue for you all,
the walrus was Paulwe’re all the same!! We’re all very closely related. We’re all a bunch of mutant inbred piglets with cloven hooves (credit to Lou Reed for the analogy). Only 70-80,000 years ago, there were just 3-7,000 humans on the entire planet. We’re all really closely related cousins. Please stop the racist B.S.Mr. Mustard
Lets not forget you think the sky is blue. LOL It’s NOT!!!!
Technically speaking Jews are Henotheists and Christians that only follow the New Testament are Monotheists. If, however, a Christian also adopts the Old Testament, then they are also Henotheists. Why Henotheist you may ask? Because of the first of the “Ten Commandments” which states “Thou shalt have no gods BEFORE me.” Which means that one must hold the Old Testament god above other gods with the consestion that there are still other gods.
#115, I would have to say that if you are an evangelical or charismatic christian that you are indeed cloven hoof scum. That being said I point you back to my last post where I tell you that I ONLY care about Jews and protecting us from the evangelists of the world 🙂 G-d bless
and btw I dont have a problem with a cloven hoof, I just thought I would run with your post 😉
#111 are you dumb or something?
Scroll few posts up – our posting fella called his Rabbi, and even though he doesn’t consider himself a Jew, his Rabbi still *does* – so how that fits into your theories? LOL!
Are you trying to tell us you know better than a Rabbi about jewishness?
😉