Moved BACK to the top until it runs out of steam!
I was always told that Christianity was a monotheistic religion but I want to challenge that because clearly it is not. First the definitions:
- No Gods – Atheism
- One God – Monotheism
- Two or more Gods – Polytheism
First, I’m not even going through the “Holy Ghost” thing except to say that “Trinity” means 3 and 3 > 1.
Assuming that:
- God is a deity
- Jesus is a deity
- Jesus and God are individuals
Then God and Jesus are two and 2 > 1.
Therefore Christianity is polytheism.
Polytheism isn’t a matter of belief. I personally am a Realist and I don’t believe any of it. However when one objectively classifies religious beliefs based on the number of gods, I’m counting two. Some would count three, but either is greater than one.
The reference is the Bible. According to the stories Jesus and God are two individuals. God was in the Old Testament, Jesus was not. Jesus was born of a virgin, God was not. Jesus addresses God as a separate individual. They have different stories. They have different roles. That talk to each other the way separate people talk.
The bottom line is – they are both deities and they are two individuals. Therefore Christianity is a polytheistic religion.
bobbo #237
“For instance–is it racists to post that Jews from New York City are “pushy.” Well, I think that is debateable”
Really so you think it is debatable that an entire population from a specific area is pushy? Does that mean all New York Jews or just the ones with money?
Thank man. Think about what you say.
“I have to say I haven’t seen Mustardo post anything DIRECTLY racist,”
That’s exactly the problem. Know one notices it and cant see it except from their perspective. It continues and becomes the norm until it either becomes a problem or some one stands up and says that is wrong.
>>I didn’t want to sound like an ignorant rube
>>by saying something stupid like, “those
>>Orientals sure make great General Tso’s
>>Chicken.”
Would you feel more intellectual saying “Those Asians sure make great General Tso’s Chicken”?
#163 – >>Atheists is not a religion by its very
>>definition and by the definition of religion.
Snore. New here, are ya?
No. He’s quite aware of how many times we’ve tried to correct your errors.
#240 substitute “american” with “european”.
“American” was poor choice of mine, due to “United-Statarians” calling themselves “americans” (debying thus honor to Canadians who are also clearly americans LOL, but thats not important)
>>It continues and becomes the norm until it
>>either becomes a problem or some one stands up
>>and says that is wrong.
Or until people get a fucking life, put on the Big-Boy Pants, and move on.
#206 – OFTLO
See, OFTLO, that’s what’s wrong with assuming propagana as fact.
o·ri·en·tal
–adjective
1. (usually initial capital letter) of, pertaining to, or characteristic of the Orient, or East; Eastern.
2. of the orient or east; eastern.
3. (initial capital letter) Zoogeography. belonging to a geographical division comprising southern Asia and the Malay Archipelago as far as and including the Philippines, Borneo, and Java.
4. Jewelry.
a. (usually initial capital letter) designating various gems that are varieties of corundum: Oriental aquamarine; Oriental ruby.
b. fine or precious; orient: oriental agate; oriental garnet.
c. designating certain natural saltwater pearls found esp. in the Orient.
–noun
5. (usually initial capital letter) a native or inhabitant of the Orient.
Any term that designates an object’s geographical origin applies likewise to persons. There is no exception.
Sorry. 😉
#217 – Still, calling those good folks in Chinatown “Mongoloids” would probably get your ass more than kicked?
Unless they were really big fans of Devo 🙂
OhForTheLoveOf
a rug made in Orient is oriental
but human born in Orient is not oriental
because it is dehumanizing?
Car made in Europe is european
Human born in Europe is european
and it is NOT dehumanizing?
your logic *really* sux
#247 ditto
#243 – Would you feel more intellectual saying “Those Asians sure make great General Tso’s Chicken”?
It’s not about being more intellectual. It’s about being right or not being right. In my case either sentence is wrong because the General Tso’s at the place I go to most often is made by a Mexican guy.
Mr Mustard #241
“I was showing kinship with Hitler”
No you were showing it when you said “Blame the Jews”.
“And when I pointed out that there are a lot of pushy Jews”
Really. Where is the data on that? Do you have a study on it?
“I used SOMEONE ELSE’S term (piglet)”
here is your post
“Pointing out obvious differences among the piglets is not racist.”
Who are the piglets? The different races? Do you know how offensive that can be to people who are Jewish or Muslim?
“I think “J”’s problem is that he’s too full of himself,”
No I have reall issues with racists and there hidden racism
“and has a congenital lack of a sense of humor.”
No I don’t think it is funny to be a racist.
Mr Mustard #246
“Or until people get a fucking life, put on the Big-Boy Pants, and move on.”
So it is ok to call those with darker skin “nigger”?
>>It’s not about being more intellectual.
>>It’s about being right or not being right.
Well, everybody knows that “Asians” (whatever the fuck they are) don’t make General Tso’s Chicken. General Tso (aka General Zuo Zongtang) was a Chinese military genius of the Quin Dynasty.
>>the General Tso’s at the place I go to
>>most often is made by a Mexican guy.
Yuck! That’s just gross. I don’t think I’ve ever been in a Chinese restaurant where the staffers weren’t Chinese. Or at least “Asian”.
# 242 —J
bobbo #237
“For instance–is it racists to post that Jews from New York City are “pushy.” Well, I think that is debateable”
Really so you think it is debatable that an entire population from a specific area is pushy? /// Of course not. C’mon now. think not like a racists, think not monolithically. Did Mustardo say “All Jews from NYC are pushy??==No. and therein lies the debate.
Does that mean all New York Jews or just the ones with money? /// Joke alert: don’t you mean any Jew from NYC or any rich Jew from anywhere? No. Only propagandists think in terms of “all” anything.
Thank man. Think about what you say.
“I have to say I haven’t seen Mustardo post anything DIRECTLY racist,”
That’s exactly the problem. Know one notices it and cant see it except from their perspective. It continues and becomes the norm until it either becomes a problem or some one stands up and says that is wrong. /// Again, it “can” mean that, or it can mean something else, and THAT frames the debate rather than going off half cocked believing the worst. Expecially when dealing with spicy subjects and personalities.
Besides, in a VERY REAL SENSE, no one including yourself should care if Mustardo is or is not a racists. That is purely hominem. Instead, go to what is posted. What is posted is “not defined” mostly, and when defined, the definitions are mostly ignored. So–its debatable.
The pushy NY Schitty comment is made at post #46. Its not even a complete sentence. I don’t even know what half thought Mustardo had formed at that posting. This is called an ambiguous comment. Folks can project whatever they want to into such a void. The experienced let it pass until something explicit comes their way?
the Three-Headed Cat said #247
“Any term that designates an object’s geographical origin applies likewise to persons. There is no exception.”
You sure you want to stick with that?
>>No you were showing it when you said
>>“Blame the Jews”.
Context, m’hijito. What I was replying to in that context was Bobbo’s complaint that being a “Jew” is both an ethnic AND a religious classification. If you don’t want to blame it on the Jews, whom would you like to blame it on?
>>here is your post
>>
>>“Pointing out obvious differences among
>>the piglets is not racist.”
And here is Scottie’s post, from which I was clipping vocabulary terms:
“We’re all a bunch of mutant inbred piglets with cloven hooves (credit to Lou Reed for the analogy).”
If you consider that “racist”, take it up with Scottie. Or can’t anybody be blamed for anything these days?
And if that’s “offensive to Jews or Muslims”, that would be just too fucking bad. I don’t ask other people to believe my own personal fantasies about religion, and I don’t feel obligated to believe theirs. The term was not meant in an offensive way, but if it was, good.
>>No I don’t think it is funny to be a racist.
If you think I’m a racist, you’re too fucked in the head to even have a discussion with.
>>So it is ok to call those with darker
>>skin “nigger”?
Well, I would not use that sort of vocabulary myself, but I hear it from “those with darker skin” all the time. And if you think calling someone from the Orient an Oriental person is tantamount to calling a Black person (not just African-Americans, but those of African lineage no matter what their citizenship) a “nigger”, well, you’re just to fucked in the head to even have a discussion with.
#255===”Context” as in 3HC is advancing the argument that Oriental includes someone from the Orient. In the heat of battle, he/she/it expands it to be universal. Yea, depending on what he really means you can try to stretch it that far, but few things are uniform. so, you can quibble, or take his main point.
BTW–what geographical area does not also roughly describe its people? I’m trying to come up with one and can’t do it.
i used to read this blog for the occasional tech-related tidbit…..but this half-baked and misguided post is pretty pathetic. has this blog really stooped to such a poor quality in order to generate some traffic?
>>The pushy NY Schitty comment is made at
>>post #46. Its not even a complete sentence.
Uh, Bobster; #46 is a comment by Phillep, and contains no reference to Noo Yawk Schitty. I believe my first reference to Noo Yawk Schitty was in #69 “Oh, I know plenty of Jews. Some from Israel, some from Noo Yawk Schitty, and plenty from elsewhere. I’m not sure what your complaint is with that grammar or syntax.
bobbo
“Of course not. C’mon now. ”
Well what the hell does that mean? Aren’t we supposed to judge people on an individual bases?
“Did Mustardo say “All Jews from NYC are pushy??==”
No he said
“And when I pointed out that there are a lot of pushy Jews”
A lot? All? Doesn’t make a difference. That is like saying a lot of Irish are drunks. Not true. It is defamatory toward the Irish.
“Joke alert: don’t you mean any Jew from NYC or any rich Jew from anywhere?”
Ok that made me laugh.
“No. Only propagandists think in terms of “all” anything.”
I agree but saying most or a lot is not far off. It makes a judgment about people based on their race or ethnicity.
“Again, it “can” mean that, or it can mean something else, and THAT frames the debate rather than going off half cocked believing the worst.”
You didn’t get hit with a brick when you were little while standing with your mother against the Nazi party marching through your town. A town that was mostly people of Hebrew decent.
You have to take it seriously and you have to think the worst. When you don’t you allow it to spread. For instance. It is apparent allot of people here don’t realize that the term Oriental is seen as offensive because of it’s historical use. Just like the Nazi Symbol. It was not offensive before the Nazi’s used it as a symbol of hatred. Same goes with the term Oriental
“no one including yourself should care if Mustardo is or is not a racists”
But yes I do. I will stand up to it no matter where I see it or where it comes from. When you allow it…..it will spread and it is ignorance and selfish to assume “if it doesn’t offend me than it must be ok”
“Do you know how offensive that can be to people who are Jewish or Muslim?”
Moron. Do you know how offensive ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING is to SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE?
Who gives a flying fuck except for smug, self-righteous, holier-than-thou, judgemental know-it-alls-who-don’t-actually-know-shit – such as you, coïncidentally enough – who have had their weak little “minds” brainwashed by Marxist propaganda into seeing everything as “racism,” …and themselves, of course, as being such morally superior saints. Pfffffft®™
Since I blew your idiotic argument into tiny shreds of shit back there, I can’t help but notice how you – like all PC jerkoffs – lack the balls to acknowledge when you’ve been proven wrong. You read my bulletproof refutation of the propaganda you spewed and then avoid it like it’s radioactive, praying all the while that no one witnessed your argument spinning it’s way down the toilet.
It figures, since PC ‘tards are invariably not only intellectual disabled and dishonest, they’re also chickenshit.
I lobbed the ball back into your court, Mr. Judgemental, with facts you can’t refute. Are you gonna keep standing there like an asshole, talking shit to the spectators and pretending you didn’t see it? Try to refute it – if you’re a fool – or be a mensch and admit your loss. Or take the default: you ARE chickenshit.
“No I have reall issues with racists and there hidden racism”
No you don’t, gullible middle-class suburban white boy. You just need to project your sense of white guilt and inferiority on everyone else, so you can feel better about yourself.
“Hidden racism” – that’s what your brainwashers told you to call the shit you read into other people’s words, that isn’t really there.
#247 – 5. (usually initial capital letter) a native or inhabitant of the Orient.
Fair enough.
However, that is contradicted (somewhat) by this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oriental
I think the answer is in the usage. It’s also worth pointing out that the Orient is what is now the Middle East. Japan, for example, is not Oriental.
That said…
#249 – your logic *really* sux
Yeah… whatever… I’m stating what I’ve learned, not what I figured out on my own. Logic has nothing to do with it.
I don’t care how you use the language, I’m only stating what I believe to be the common usage and reasoning for that usage. Who said language was logical?
Besides, this debate originates from a theological question, so there really isn’t any reason to inject logic into it in the first place.
Mustardo–right you are. The post was #42==I’ve been up too long.
Your post #256 is quite correct. “Context” requires just a little bit of attention rather than letting those knee jerk spasms have free rein when those stimulus words are noticed.
It amuses me that at post 242 J can see what “no one else notices” and then he quickly spirals down to use of the dreaded “N” word. Now, we are all sensitive boys and girls here. Just glad my sensitivities run in different directions.
>>A lot? All? Doesn’t make a difference.
You’re right. However many there are, there are enough that even Jews themselves make fun of the “stereotype”, and they don’t get their knickers in a twist over it.
I suggest you thicken up the skin a little bit and worry more about things that matter, than about mysteriously perceived insults against “pushy Jews” and “Orientals”.
Gosh and golly, you should see the abuse I take here for my Christian beliefs. I have the impression that if anybody tried that stuff on you, you’d pee your pants.
Besides, you’re not a Jew anyway, right? Weren’t you the one who said “Being a Jew” means you practice the Jewish faith. It has no relation to your ethnicity”? Or are you capitulating on the ethnicity thing? ‘Bout fucking time. “Practicing the Jewish faith” doesn’t make you more likely to suffer from Tay-Sachs disease. It’s the ethnic thing.
>>A town that was mostly people of
>>Hebrew decent.
“Hebrew decent (sic)”?? What does that mean? Jewish? Is there a euphemism for everything in your world? Can people ever just say what they actually mean?
#262 has it occur to you, that *your* “common usage and reasoning for that usage” of the English is perhaps too local, too closely tied to your area, to be taken at face value and considered “common” in the country or a world scale?
sheeesh!
#263. ===BOBBO=== well, I’m going to let you pass on this one, but #42 also had no reference to Noo Yawk Schitty. #42 was the post where I revealed my Nazi sympathies by saying “Blame it on the Jews” for having both a religious and an ethnic aspect.
(ack, I can’t wait to see what kind of murderous monster “J” tries to make me look like with that statement).
J — glad you still could find a chuckle.
The following is disturbing: “You didn’t get hit with a brick when you were little while standing with your mother against the Nazi party marching through your town.”
So, we all have childhood trauma. Lots of KKK folks will say “You didn’t get beat up by some black—yada, yada” and use that for whatever BS they want to project onto the mass of innocent folks.
Your personal experiences should make you sensitive to, but not conclusionary and less even accusatory, of those things that raise your hackles? ((Bad syntax, no time to rewrite!).
So, yes====”Never again!” but sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
Wow your not exactly a theologian are you? Your overwhelming simplicity to the trinity just shows your lack of depth as an individual not to mention your brain. Just because we cannot fully understand the concept as human beings doesn’t mean it can’t exist.
#253 – This is interesting enough, though it contradicts the story I heard.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Tso's_chicken
In 1865, Tso was Commissioner of Naval Industries, and oversaw the founding of China’s first naval academy.
I had heard that General Tso visited the United States to learn from the Americans when he was tasked with helping build a modern navy and that Chinese Immigrants in San Fransisco prepared the dish in his honor.
That is completely invalidated by the Wiki, so the question is which is right… Wiki, or the Chinese Chef I met in San Fran who told the tale of Tso’s chicken to me.
>>the General Tso’s at the place I go to
>>most often is made by a Mexican guy.
Yuck! That’s just gross.
🙂 I’m not sure I like the racist implication that Mexicans are somehow inferior when it somes to frying chicken and smothering it in sauce 🙂
#264
“Gosh and golly, you should see the abuse I take here for my Christian beliefs. I have the impression that if anybody tried that stuff on you, you’d pee your pants.”
I concur 🙂
If it was muslim or jewish who get even a half of the shit that is being posted on christianity on dvorak, we would have had already at least few official inquiries from law enforcement about prejudism, racism, antisemitism, or there would have been ongoing jihad (like it was with mere Mohammad cartoons) 😉
But then don’t cry, Mister Mustard, your sucky religion is the official scapegoat of the current propaganda, so take it like a good christian should: give us your other cheek too 😉
#262 – OFTLO
“I’m stating what I’ve learned, not what I figured out on my own. Logic has nothing to do with it.”
Oops. Not A Good Thing, me lad. If you don’t use the tools of logic to inspect what you’ve learned, it isn’t learning, it’s indoctrination. That’s how religion gets passed on to the next generation; they feed it to kids before the kids have learned how to put it to the reality test, so they accept it, no matter how ridiculous – stuff they would larf at if you tried to get ’em to accept it in adulthood.
• • • • • • • • •
…and another note for my old friend J, whose life consists of selflessly taking offense at everything on behalf of those people he condescending doesn’t believe are smart enough to take offense on their own.
“That is like saying a lot of Irish are drunks. Not true. It is defamatory toward the Irish.”
Really? Is that so? Well, boyo, a lot of Irish ARE drunks. And my family and many of my friends agree. But they don’t know as much as you – they’re (as am I) just Irish. Thanks for setting us straight on that.
A few minutes ago, I was talking briefly on the phone with my brother’s wife, who was born in mainland China. I asked her, “So if I said you were an Oriental, what would you say?” Her response was, “I’d say, well, DUH!” Should I call her back and tell her she’s supposed to be mortally insulted?
Idiot.