Associated Press – July 1, 2008:
Taking a page from President Bush, Democrat Barack Obama said Tuesday he wants to expand White House efforts to steer social service dollars to religious groups, risking protests in his own party with his latest aggressive reach for voters who usually vote Republican.
Obama contended he is merely stating long-held positions — surprising to some, he said, after a primary campaign in which he was “tagged as being on the left.”
Obama recently won the endorsement of the Rev. Kirbyjon Caldwell, leader of a Methodist megachurch in Houston who is very close to Bush.
McCain is a mostly reliable conservative vote, but he isn’t as passionate or vocal about religious conservatives as some would like. He also famously upbraided some Christian evangelical leaders as “agents of intolerance” in his first presidential campaign. He has sought to make amends since then and is continuing his outreach efforts. He met with world-renowned evangelist Billy Graham last weekend.
Obama’s high-profile embrace of a key theme of Bush’s time in office — the “faith-based initiative” — is just the latest example of him trying to show his centrist side.
Well, this marks my first concern Obama may indeed be just a hack politician. Selling hope and a message of change with who knows what behind it. Not all bad, politicians who honor the world stage must learn to deal with/pander to the powers that be.
I think this is going to be fun.
The next thing you’ll see is Gays voting for McCain.
Yeah, this sucks. And #1 Bobbo, ANYONE who gets in as a presidential candidate is a political hack. If they weren’t, they would have offended too many special-interest groups to make it to the election.
The only consolation is the probably, in spite of his pandering to the religion-in-government flakes, he will attempt to divert the funds to groups that run soup kitchens, addiction recovery services, homeless shelters, etc., not the prayer-in-school and creationism-in-science-class kooks.
Sometimes you just have to take the bitter with the sweet.
In a contest between Obama and McBush, McBush is pretty much irrelevant.
Very misleading headline. Please RTFA with care. Here’s an excerpt:
Where there are state or local laws prohibiting hiring choices based on sexual orientation in the federally funded portion of the programs, he said he would support those being applied.”
Is Obama a politician? Sure, and working to win an election. Do we need to do our part in understanding issues and their more nuanced aspects instead of just having knee-jerk reactions and accepting being manipulated by artificial wedge issues, headlines and sound bites? Absolutely.
Just the first concern Obaman may indeed be just a hack politician? In just the past week Obama has behaved exactly like a hack on several key issues.
* He was against granting immunity to telecom companies that aided our government in eavesdropping on known terrorist operatives overseas. Now he is for granting this immunity to the evil telecom corporations.
* Some time ago Obama said that he wholeheartedly supported the ban on the private ownership of guns in Washington DC. Then, after the Supreme Court came down with their ruling last week, suddenly Obama is a supporter of the people’s right to keep and bear arms.
* Earlier this year Obama said that he was going to accept public financing of his presidential campaign after the convention. Now that he has seen he could get more money from private contributions than he would from public financing, he changed his mind.
* NAFTA? Barack was going to immediately renegotiate all of the evil NAFTA treaty. Now … well, let’s just say “not so much.”
* And once he is in the White House, just watch how many years he keeps the troops in Iraq.
This comes from the AP which mis-reported the story. The obama camp has been proclaiming for quite awhile that it wants to implement a new set of guidelines for governmental funding of charitable organizations linked to religious orders. Read the excerpt from his speech below:
The story seems to be more that the AP got it wrong (again).
#5–jbenso==all good points.
I don’t “get” the gun change issue. Any lawyer, any constitutional law professor “should” change their minds once the Sup Ct makes up theirs?
No, my focus is on what I perceived as Obama’s “actual” values. I can see pandering to others on issues you don’t care about–why not? You don’t care so why not use such issues in the best way you can with those who do care?
Having said that I see that it was “my” values that Obama violated, not his own.
Gee, reading, and thinking, and writing–what a rush.
>>Having said that I see that it was “my”
>>values that Obama violated, not his own.
What values are those, Bobster? You’re against funding Unitarian Univeralists or Congregationalists ONLY for secular activities that have nothing to do with dreaded religion?
He’s rapidly removing the daylight between himself and McCain. This is upsetting to me, I had hoped he would have really stuck to providing a clear difference not casting such a wide net/shotgun approach that makes his brand diluted and offers less clarity as to what he really believes, rather than what polls well.
Oh, and I have/still supported Obama but am getting upset at the lack of spine and chameleon like behavior. (yes I know… its a politician thing to do…).
#8–Mustard==my values are to outlaw religion as a particularly evil form of stupidity, but knowing that is not achievable, I cling to separation of church and state as completely as possible.
Politics, money, Religion==put it all in one pot and think there won’t be corruption?
Okay, where’s all the lib outrage? Hmmm. Or, does have to do with partisanship more than principles?
#10 – Bobo
>>my values are to outlaw religion as a
>>particularly evil form of stupidity
Outlaw religion? Holy fuck! While I concede that not all worshippers at the altar of Atheism are like Pol Pot and Stalin, I’m coming to realize that perhaps you are.
What would be the punishment for breaking your religious law? Death? Torture? Concentration camp imprisonment? Waterboarding?
As I said, holy fuck! Outlawing religion is one of your core values? I realize that some Atheists are bitter, angry, disillusioned sods, but Jesus Christ, man! You’re willing to rip up the Constitution just to promulgate your hatred for people of faith?
Outlawing organized religion might be a great way to boost the economy too. You’re still free to believe as you wish, just not while a holier than thou con man is robbing you blind. Sounds like a good idea to me.
#12–Now Mustard–contain yourself. Don’t go squirting yourself all over the ceiling.
My “values” are my own==not to be forced on others by force of law, after all, I’m not religious and I’m not trying to save anyone.
So–what I would DO==is as I have said: complete separation of church and state. You can be as stupid as you mandate, but don’t expect tax dollars to support your stupidity.
I have waffled on whether there should be tax exemption for churches. I see the good work they do in spite of themselves but I don’t think tax exempt churches should be out campaigning for candidates but like the carry rule in basketball, it seems this good rule has gone by the wayside? The only way to enforce the no politics in the house of god rule is to take away tax exemption and that seems like an over involvement to me. One way out?==remove tax exemption and let them speak like everyone else.
Sad but true.
Bobolina
>>My “values” are my own==not to be forced on
>>others by force of law
Ah, I see. So when you said “Mustard==my values are to outlaw religion as a particularly evil form of stupidity, you meant that you’d implement a “voluntary” law? The kind you only have to follow if you want to?
Sheesh.
And I agree with you on complete separation of church and state. I don’t agree with Obie.
But hey. I don’t agree with ANYONE on everything. That’s life, I guess.
In any case, Obie’s going to be our next POTUS, and we’ll have slipped the surly bonds of the Republican for at least another 4 years.
#17–Mustard==I accept my values statement is ambiguous. My values equals what I really thing, the way the world would be if it was a reflection of my desires. But I live in a world filled with people that disagree with me, and I have to get along. I’ve got no loving god that wants me to force my values on other people in order to receive some reward in heaven.
Its like all other “values” issues. There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG (in a sense) with being pro-life. Just don’t force those values on other people==then and only then can we all get along. Don’t have to agree with one another, but we can still get along.
And thats just one of the ways religion is evilly stupid. It forces its values and druthers on other people. How could I do the same?
OMG what are the gay demos going to do now!
#18 – Bobster
>>I accept my values statement is ambiguous.
Naw, it’s clear as can be. You said “my values are to outlaw religion as a particularly evil form of stupidity“.
Doesn’t get more clearcut than that. To outlaw. To criminalize. To punish those who practice religion. To put them on the wrong side of The Law.
>>And thats just one of the ways religion
>>is evilly stupid.
Bobolina, you really should get out more. Sure, Pat Robertson and the Catholic Church and some of the adulterous, homosexual, drug-using, prostitute-visiting evanelical types seek to legislate what they think God wants other people to do.
That’s not my religion. And just like not all Atheists are Pol Pot, Mao, or Stalin, not all “religious” people (in fact, not many) adhere to the silly stereotype portrayed by the anti-faith evangelical wingnuts on dvorak dot org slash blog.
Anyone that is suprised that Obama supports the idea of relgious groups doing social work kinda missed why he said he joined a church in the first place. It was the active role the black church played in the African American community to make it a better place.
Even if you believe in nothing it still computes to get your social workers for free. That leaves more money to do social work with.
Various civic clubs and church groups seem to fit the bill and they have volunteers. They also know the people in their neighborhoods.
#20–Mustard: “Doesn’t get more clearcut than that”==well, include the notion that it is a “value” of mine, not a desired “action” of mine and you will have it==all as excellently explained and ignored by you.
You will also ignore this==religion is not evilly stupid because of the god belief. True, that is incredibly stupid but there are so many different gods and beleif systems subsumed by religion that that is just a tangled mess—discrediting the whole, but also highlighting the real evil stupidity==religion teaches/encourages/comforts people to stop thinking critically, become satisfied with the status quo, to accept other idiots as leaders and to follow them, finally to engage in “magical thinking” which is not thinking at all. Religion is a generic harm, not a specific one. When you BELIEVE in things that can’t be proven, you remove yourself from the challenge of being human. A failure. A worthless excuse.
But, thats the meaning I give this existential orb. Others disagree.
Chameleon. 😛
Bobbo, if you would drop the whack-a-doodle punctuation, your posts would be easier to read.
>>==well, include the notion that it is a
>>“value” of mine, not a desired “action” of
>>mine and you will have it==all as excellently
>>explained and ignored by you.
So. If it was a “value” of mine to attach electrodes to your testicles, shock you nearly to death, resuscitate you, waterboard you, carve tatttos in you with a Swiss Army knife, and then kill you, you wouldn’t have a problem with that?
People generally “act” on their “values”. And if your “values” include making criminals out of people practicing their faith, that sounds a little dangerous to me. Perhaps one of your “values” includes rounding up Jews and herding them into gas ovens?
As to the penultimate paragraph of your post, all I can say is you really need to get out more. Your pathetic lack of understanding about what faith really means makes me surer than I ever was that I’d never vote for you as an elected official.
You just don’t get it.
It’s lots of fun to deride the “meth-and-man-ass” hypocrites and the guys who want to put Creationism into the science curriculum, but Christ, boy! Get a fucking clue? You’re so hell-bent on your fucked-up punctuation and your weird words and your pretzel logic that you’ve lost track of what’s really important.
Sheesh.
I just wish Rapture would happen already… the world would be a more peaceful place I would imagine.
As I thought. Hypocrites to the end.
#28 – Paddy-O
>>As I thought. Hypocrites to the end.
A propos of nothing?
#27 – Rapture already happened, we all got left behind. 🙂
#31 – zefvr, are you and James Hill partners?
I don’t think this counts as a flip-flop. Looks like good politics. Now if he would offset it by cutting regular programs.
Hoo boy what a tactical blunder. This bunk is going to cost him a heckuva lot of support and enthusiasm within his own party. I know I’m losing mine just reading the quote.
What a letdown.