Associated Press – July 1, 2008:
Taking a page from President Bush, Democrat Barack Obama said Tuesday he wants to expand White House efforts to steer social service dollars to religious groups, risking protests in his own party with his latest aggressive reach for voters who usually vote Republican.
Obama contended he is merely stating long-held positions — surprising to some, he said, after a primary campaign in which he was “tagged as being on the left.”
Obama recently won the endorsement of the Rev. Kirbyjon Caldwell, leader of a Methodist megachurch in Houston who is very close to Bush.
McCain is a mostly reliable conservative vote, but he isn’t as passionate or vocal about religious conservatives as some would like. He also famously upbraided some Christian evangelical leaders as “agents of intolerance” in his first presidential campaign. He has sought to make amends since then and is continuing his outreach efforts. He met with world-renowned evangelist Billy Graham last weekend.
Obama’s high-profile embrace of a key theme of Bush’s time in office — the “faith-based initiative” — is just the latest example of him trying to show his centrist side.
I find comfort in the fact that the longer I’m in politics the less nourishing popularity becomes, that a striving for rank and fame seems to betray a poverty of ambition, and that I am answerable mainly to the steady gaze of my own conscience.” Thus spake Barack Obama. These words appear at the conclusion of the chapter entitled “Politics” in Obama’s 2006 book The Audacity of Hope.
Most of responses missed the true nature of Obama’s support for this issue: social engineering he is so fond of. Provide Govt. money just to the religious organizations which are PC (opposite of traditional) because others do not comply with the Govt. nondiscrimination rules for the fact that those rules violate very religious basis they hold dear. Do you think that Catholic Church will employ gay personnel for the Govt. sponsored outreach? No, they won’t sacrifice beliefs for the money. Monies will go to the NewAge and Marxists churches and organizations (like the one Obama just “left”). No matter how you like/dislike Bush, under his organization both traditional religions and NewAge Marxists have had the same chance for these funds and public works… Obama’s plan punishes ones who do not think like Obama… Typical “1984” scenario: discrimination=nondiscrimination.
#30 – Mister Ketchup – Rapture already happened, we all got left behind.
Damn… No chance of a second run?
#31 – zefyr – …there are gay republicans, The Log Cabin Republicans.
Stan visits the Log Cabin Republicans.
I told you by October he’ll be back slapping John Hagee.
Hey! I like this idea! Now our liberal churches will tap into those millions of tax dollars. Sweet!
Barack Obama says he is against gay marriage, then he congratulates gays on getting married. He says he is the decision should be left up to the states. Then he says he is against the Defense of Marriage Act, and against state amendments banning gay marriage.
Are you really sure he would insist on hiring gays to get this money?
#36 – Mr. Maletic
>>Do you think that Catholic Church will employ
>>gay personnel for the Govt. sponsored
>>outreach? No, they won’t sacrifice beliefs
>>for the money.
Heh heh. I guess you’re not too familiar with the Catholic Church, hmmmm?
“America is the greatest nation on Earth. I need you help to change that. I’m Barack Obama and I approved this message.”
This better be just a ploy to gain votes from McCain…
#45 – Amazing how brainwashed Omama supporters are. “Mr. Supporter, please step into this pot hanging over the fire.” Mr. Supporter says, “Master Omama, I hope this is just a ploy to win the election.”
LOL!
#3 – Mister Mustard,
You were off to a great start on this. I agreed with that statement completely. Then you went on to #8 which was surprisingly off the mark for you.
The issue with faith based initiatives is that they always existed. The government just required that religious organizations applying for the money prove that they are not discriminatory. Now, because of Bush’s shit and Obama’s furthering of the shit, they can be discriminatory and still get the federal funds.
ACLU Calls on Congress to Reject Funding of Religious Activities
The really strange bit is that he actually did this after this truly amazing speech on religion.
Let’s see if I can embed this.
If that didn’t work, try this youtube link:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=B2Kh-xzerjE
#41
Typical MikeN distortion. There is nothing in EO acts that makes it imperative to hire gays or anything else. Just that you can’t refuse to hire them if you feel that they are gay..something you probably shouldn’t even know, unless they popped up at the job interview shouting gay pride slogans..^_^. (In which case I can think of several non-gay discrimination reasons not to hire..stupidity being the first..^_^)
Try and comprehend this. Not discriminating against any given group is not the same as mandated hiring of any given member of aforesaid groups. Allowing same gender marriage is not the same as forcing same gender marriage. Allowing people to be Republican is not the same as forcing people to be lying scumbags. See how easy it is?
I’m wondering what Obama is going to be like when he isn’t reading whatever he says. He’s either reading something on the podium or using teleprompters where his head goes from prompter left to prompter right, back and forth. That said, he reads well. But who wrote what he is saying?
#47 – Scottie
OK, I’ll concede the point. I really haven’t spent too much time researching Obie’s views on “faith-based” initiatives. I just have greater confidence that he won’t be pimping Creationism and school prayer than I do about Dumbya.
I was under the impression that Obie’s support of faith-based initiatives was limited to government money that would be used to buy mattresses for homeless people with no where to sleep, soup for people with nothing to eat, and addiction recovery services for people who are trapped in the endless spiral of alcoholism and drug addiction.
If you’re saying that he’s supporting funds for proselytizers, evangelicals, and organizations that will not hire GLBT’s, black, and hispanics, well, that would be just one more issue that I disagree with him on.
Still, when you compare him against McBush, he comes out on top.
So far we haven’t had a chance to really see him unscripted. He hasn’t taken any news show interviews that would be tough on him. It will be interesting to see if he takes McCain up on the Town Hall Q&A. As it stands he refused the free form type and will only do it with McCain if is the stump speech type.
#50 – Mister Mustard,
No. I’m saying that the whole concept of Bush’s faith based initiatives is about removing the non-discrimination requirement.
Religious orgs have been able to get funding for these initiatives for years. However, they were required to show that they were non-discriminatory.
Now, they’re not.
So, when it’s all faith based discriminatory organizations providing all of the services, try being a non-theistic social worker and getting a job. GFL (Good Luck)!!
And, when all the services are being provided by religious orgs, try receiving any of the services without at least pretending to listen to their proselytizing. Again, GFL!
That’s what’s wrong with faith based initiatives.
Think I’ll go write Mr. Obama a nasty-gram now and see how he responds, if he does.
Here is a link to the contact page for Mr. Obama. I was flagged as spam when I tried to post it in the reply above.
http://my.barackobama.com/page/s/contact2
>>So, when it’s all faith based discriminatory
>>organizations providing all of the services,
>>try being a non-theistic social worker and
>>getting a job. GFL (Good Luck!)
Aw jeez, Scottie. Is there something hidden in Obama’s (or even Bush’s, for that matter) language that says ONLY faith-based orgs can get funding?
I’m not real keen on the whole “faith-based” thing as funded by the gummint, but it seems to me that there are a lot of Chicken Littles out there, strongly implying that if any organization that professes a belief in God gets a dime, no social services will be provided (nor employment given) to anyone who doesn’t reject birth control, same-sex marriage, Darwinism, and who doesn’t roll on the floor speaking in tongues.
Seems to me like this might be a lot of ado about not all that much.
One of the reasons I’m voting for Obie is that I trust him not to be a fucking asshole. I have no such illusions about the Chimperor-in-Chief.
#56 – MM,
You’re surprisingly missing the point. Read the ACLU statement carefully. The wording is clear. Religious organizations were always able to get funding. The specific wording by Bush removes the necessity of them being non-discriminatory with the money. So, now we are publicly funding religious discrimination.
That’s the difference.
So, now we do fund that percentage of organizations who really do refuse to hire or provide services to “anyone who doesn’t reject birth control, same-sex marriage, Darwinism, and who doesn’t roll on the floor speaking in tongues.”
I trust Obama to be a lot less of a fucking asshole than Bush or McBush. That’s going to have to be enough, as usual. The non-fucking-assholes do not typically make it far in politics, with a few notable exceptions.
Will he also only answer to his imaginary friend in the sky. Sad, Having voted in every election since Ike’s, this is the first time I’ll stay home because no matter who wins, I do not want to say I voted for them a year later.
#59 – qsabe,
Do you really think the quality of candidates is equal this year? I think not. Consider that instead of saying you voted for Obama, you could say you voted against McBush.
Of course, if you are considering voting the other way, I retract this post and recommend that you stay home. But that’s just me.
#60 – M-Scott –
The scary thought I entertain is that it won’t make any difference who we elect. One will do what they are told as readily as the other and neither will do what appears to me needs to be done, get us back on track to become solvent and distance Government from social issues best left to the individual States to rectify. Mommy…I want my Constitution back…make Daddy give it back..
I’m going back to my bong for this election.
#61 – -Pedro-
Most of us can see at least some version of the road to hell in front of us but, no where have I read where anyone has a useful suggestion as to how to divert us from blasting full speed ahead down that road. Next stop may very well be as that Commie dude said the evolution of a Democracy, (Republic-Democracy, still looks and smells like a rose), ends. Maybe that’s why these guys are trying every trick they can to get elected..?
Dictator McCain…Obama…
#57 – Scottie
Oh, OK! You win! Jesus H. Christ on a crutch! Just because I’m a Bible-thumping Christian doesn’t mean I can spend an infinite amount of time researching the latest position of every candidate on faith-based initiatives!
I think we can agree to agree that Obie is the lesser of the fucking assholes.
He fucked up on this, and he fucked up on the telecom immunity thing. He’s fucked up on far less than McBush though, so I’m still voting for him.
#58 – ‘dro
>>Defending Bush. Is the rapture coming?
Holy fuck! You must have some good ganja there to come to that conclusion.
I want to smoke what you’re smoking, dude!
#64 – Mister Mustard,
He fucked up on this, and he fucked up on the telecom immunity thing. He’s fucked up on far less than McBush though, so I’m still voting for him.
Obviously we’ve been in violent agreement on that all along. There’s no way I’d vote for McIWantToStayInIraqForOneHundredFuckingYearsBush or for that matter for McIWantToHireTheFuckHeadThatKilledOurEconomyToFixItBush. I was just pointing out the subtleties of what the faith based initiatives under W. actually were.
Sorry. I forgot to account for the larger font on my link. As Phil Gramm might say about the economy, oops!
#54–Scott==as soon as Obama reads: “While you absolutely have my vote in the upcoming election” he puts your letter aside and smiles that his move to the center campaign is working.
He has been far left in his life activities and to date political interests and gained his party’s nomination by being to the slight left of Hillary. Now for the general he is moving to the center. Brilliant Politician doing what it takes to win.
Do we “know” who he is and how he will govern? No.
I am struck by how it might be nice to get a politician who actually does pander to the majority of American voters. That means I won’t get what I might particularly like, but the hope would be that VERY SAME PROCESS will avoid the very much worse rightwing pandering policies?
So, I put on my filters and prejudices and I see Obama as bi-racial, world travelling, educated, intelligent, man of ideas who is running for office.
He is “unknown” but the best person for the job that had any chance of getting it–aka–not the standard politician. I am hoping for a change.
You beat me to it bobbo. But of course if there’s people that will vote for him anyways, there’s maybe some who won’t.