REPOST TO KEEP DISCUSSION ALIVE
To thread or not to thread?
I have had many requests for establishing a real open forum off of this blog and have been exploring various forum software and message board packages. I have not been convinced of any ONE system as being both the best to use, best to read, and easiest to administer. While everything is a trade off I would appreciate more help for the readers of Dvorak Uncensored. I will repost this message as often as needed at the top of the blog. Thanks,
John
Simple rule, Low-traffic go threaded, high-traffic go non-threaded.
mimic livejournal’s underrated system
I suppose the core reason I prefer threaded and vBulletin software is that’s what most of the forums I inhabit use. If you’re the sort who is capable of having and discussing a wide range of topics — threaded is the only way to fly.
There are beaucoup packages around. Some freeware or shareware. vBulletin lets you start off leased and switch to owning the package if you prefer. Either mostly has to do with support. Support mostly has to deal with extra stuff they feel bound to offer, every year. Like any other software company!
Just about the biggest umbrella forum in the world runs threaded OK — http://www.avsforum.com
I’ve used the free version of Invision Board for quite some time and have usually been impressed with the ease of use, feature set, performance, etc. They have since moved to a completely commercial model, but it does look rather impressive.
http://www.invisionboard.com
Threaded? I honestly don’t see how anyone can enjoy such a thing.
I would myself go with phpBB for two reasons.
A. It’s simply my favorite that I have used
B. It’s free
Of course the favorite part doesn’t apply here.
I’m not sure why but I find it easier to read posts on phpBB compared to VB, and IPB. Mostly because of the way phpBB marks threads as read (ie it actually does 100% of the time).
If your willing to buy software I would go with VB – However I have never used the ACP except through their demo ACP.
John,
I’ve read your articles for a LONG time and (obviously) enjoyed them.
I think one of the first ones I read was when Windows 95 came out and you had a column here in PC Pro called “Letter from America” or something like that. You expressed some sense of exasperation in that article about how Windows “supposedly” recognised your hardware. You were, it seems, upgrading a system that had DOS and Win3.1 on it. You ran the upgrade and claimed that Windows 95 “of course” recognised your hardware *because* you had it all listed in your autoexec.bat/config.sys files. I remember thinking… Hmmm…
But then I remember trying something. I vaped my hard drive, loaded DOS with the CD driver (so it could read my Win95 CD), and then, when I got the system up and it was seeing the CD drive, I deleted EVERYTHING on the hard drive and then installed Win95. It still detected everything fine.
This made me wonder: what was John thinking? Well, of course, now I see that you were thinking it’d be a good idea to organise a forum around your blog!
John,
As a user, I’ve participated in many forums and experienced many kinds of forum software. I think the forum that is the easiest for the user and the best to read is phpbb. I love the uncluttered look of phpbb and it’s open source. See http://www.phpbb.com/
I don’t know which package is the best for you or the one that has the best administrative features. I’m the sole administrator of a phpbb forum at http://www.everythingimportant.org and I think it’s easy enough. Whatever package you decide on, be sure that you frequently backup your database and always have the latest upgrade. Hackers are always looking for vulnerabilities to exploit. They live to hack their way into boards especially and to ruin good things.
I love your blog.
A few to look at.
http://www.invisionboard.com/
http://invisionfree.com/
http://www.vbulletin.com/
http://www.proboards.com
http://www.simplemachines.org/
switch over to expressionengine.com, now in version 1.3
Blog and forum software, full integrated.
Suggested reading – Ravi Batra’s “Greenspan’s Fraud: How Two Decades of His Policies Have Undermined the Global Economy”
Looking around at the number of suggestions here, I’m impressed, not just with the breadth of solutions; but, that there is significant interest in the concept.
I guess my vote is for “threaded” — support for extended, reflective discussion is the useful priority.
All of the packages suggested appear to be capable of what you’re looking for, John.
I’m using phpBB and am very happy with it.
Forgot to say in previous comment: I enjoy your columns and blog entries FAR MORE than your readers’ comments so personally I’m not sure I’d visit your forums. Too many Dvorak wannabees.
After reading the comments sp far, I too am impressed with them. It seems there is a lot of experience out there.
I like the current setup. You, the site admin, leads the articles and keeps a handle on what happens. The graphics with each topic are usually amusing and attention getting.
Threads usually go off on tangents and get away from the core subject. The various threaded comment blogs I have seen did not keep me interested.
The only suggestion would be to keep the various articles up a little longer. Sometimes a really good topic come along that generates a lot of posts and replies.
“Too many Dvorak wannabees.”
The polite term is “groupies.” 🙂
I just found this John. It supposedly can turn off the chatter in your head.
In this new “inner-active” computer program, you’ll learn to use biofeedback along with breathing and meditation to increase your mental and physical wellness. http://www.wilddivine.com/
Forbes – November, 2004
“Turns your computer into a meditation station . . .
to unlock your full physical and mental potential.”
“The anti-video game . . . a game where you get to be the Dalai Lama.”
– Discover Magazine
“Wild Divine is innovative and fun, and even better, it’s very effective. 5 Stars!”
– PC Magazine
The Wild Divine community
http://www.wilddivine.com/app/cda/phpBB2/index.php
Sorry if this is irrelevant, but I really like the moderated comments here (repeated apologies for repeated comments in the past having missed “Your Comment — Moderated. Posted within 24 hours!” for the first couple months.
I first started following computers in ’96 or so, and luckily, I early-on stumbled across your PCMag columns, for which I gratefully acknowledge much wisdom. I realize you occasionally (“charuhmph”) say something to provoke a response, but following the forums at pcmag.com got a bit pricey in the time/value ratio, even for the most (personally) delicious threads. This blog was like a breath of fresh air after that!
I am relatively unfamiliar with blog software, but would it be a lot ask that firecrackers be limited to trackback links? I guess it probably takes an inordinate amount of time to personally review each post, but it is a GREATLY appreciated service — sorry you can’t bank on that. Maybe you could recruit a few trusted helpers.
I would very much like to see a “PREVIEW” button here….
All I want is an indicator for Jim’s comments that sez “non-sensical blather” or “at least mildly relevant”, and a way to toggle the former on and off.
Of course our tastes in comments are completely opposite, so I won’t hold my breath, John.
Now that I think about it, I don’t want threading so much as a way to keep discussions going even if they fall off the front page. No one bothers to follow-up once a post has rolled off.
*** Perhaps you could just temporarily increase the number of entries on the front page to keep a good discussion on there, until it dies or gets ridiculous. ***
TC..I intend to address all these concerns..as for certain posts falling off..I’m reposting this to the top
Telligent Systems Community Server has blogs, forums, and photo galleries. You can turn any of them off and use just one piece, like the forums. And CS runs on .NET, is free, and you can modify the source all you want. It’s also used by some of the largest forums on the web, such as forums.asp.net and the XBox forums. As a dislaimer, I do work for Telligent.
Split the blog into three forums, like your California idea.
Dvorak Left forum
Dvorak Center forum
Dvorak Right forum
And while you are at it, you might as well provide Spanish for non-English reading readers. It seems to work good as it is now. A text only version might be good for PDA and mobile users. How about some biofeedback buttons…Just kidding.
Take a look at JForum, same funcionality of phpBB, without the security holes:
Dear John,
T.C. wrote, “All I want is an indicator for Jim’s comments that sez “non-sensical blather” or “at least mildly relevant”, and a way to toggle the former on and off.” I wonder what T.C. will pay you for this functionality!
Geez it’s just a blog T.C.. It’s Johns blog, so if he wants to delete all of my comments that’s just fine. I think blogging is going to fizzle out sooner or later. Here’s a thought. Beware of the ‘Halli-bloggers. Click Fraud and Halli-Bloggers http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/16/technology/16online.html
Many blogs are just propaganda. The only reason I read this blog is because John writes a column I find worth reading. If John stopped blogging, I’d read his column. If John stopped writing his column, I’d read the blog. When John announces that he is quitting the column writing business and just blogging, you’ll know blogging is here to stay. I sort of believe that we’ll be reading a column by John about the death of blogging before we’ll be reading a blog post here that says John quit writing his column. Reason: Blogging has no major support among mainstream advertisers. Good content is expensive to produce (advertisers know this) and that’s what makes it worth watching, reading or hearing. You can write the news yourself, if that’s what you want to do. Don’t expect to be considered a news source because you have a blog. News has an editorial process that usually works well. When it doesn’t work, blogging may have some value. That value doesn’t translate into any significant revenues for the average blogger. Blogging is great as an academic idea, but as far as making a business out of it, you are wasting your time. Go for broke if you want. Charge a subscription fee to a blog and see who signs up, then you know what it’s worth. Maybe nothing! Most blogging is worthless and the bloggers make demands. Blogging is a big something for nothing shell game. Write a letter to the editor and get some ink. This blog bubble is going to burst. Luckily nobody has a lot invested into blogging, so the damage won’t be bad. There are always the free forums to write and books. Stop blogging and write a book. Don’t give the book away for free! THE END
Sincerely,
The Retired Blogger
P.S. I’m going back to books, papers and real reading.
Hey Mr. Dvorak,
I did a fair amount of research before putting my own site up. Installed a fair number of CMS/blog/community/whatever systems, fiddled with them, weeded out the ones I did not like.
Point Number One: At that time, I didn’t know about http://opensourcecms.com/, which lets you try out the various systems available. They’re pre-installed at the tryout site so you don’t need to bother with that. And you can usually try BOTH the administrator and the reader interfaces. An excellent resource!
Point Number Two: having tried a bunch of systems, I settled on Drupal (http://drupal.org). I’ve been using it for a year and love it. With the right addon modules it includes everything you need – forums, comments, frontpage news, user blogs and so on. Any feature can be turned off or on as you choose, and with the them engines it’s easy to edit your look and feel. Best of all, everything is well integrated so you don’t have a hodgepdge makeup of several systems duck-taped together. I’ve been using Drupal for over a year now and it’s a solid system. I’m not the only one; some pretty big players (Debian Planet, Linux Journal, Yahoo) are also using it.
My $0.02,
Bryan