While we all suffer from fat fingered typing at times and we at DU don’t grade, it’s still amazing how horrific the spelling and grammar can be in some of the comments on this blog. I’m surprised when contractions like don’t and can’t actually have apostrophes. Yes, there are differences between there, their and they’re, as well as to and too. I can’t even guess why people think noone is a word. I guess Anthony Burgess was on to something when he wrote A Clockwork Orange given this push to do away with teaching grammar at all.
The academic left has painted itself into a peculiar corner. They urge the rejection of traditional grammar as chauvinistic, or, more frequently, “hegemonic.” Unfortunately for them, they eventually have to read papers by students who have previously been taught by teachers who also share this outlook.
One of the seminal texts that promotes the “grammar is dead” thesis is Preparing to Teach Writing by James Williams. “Ironically, the third edition of Williams’ book Preparing to Teach Writing appeared in 2003, the same year the National Commission on Writing made public its discovery that ‘Recent analyses indicate that more than 50 percent of first-year college students are unable to produce papers that are relatively free of language errors,’” retired English professor Nan Miller points out.
New Jersey widower Van-Ness Crawford is going to court to bring attention to the failures of that state’s public schools. “Not only for his family.” The New York Post’s Andrea Peyser reports, “But for more than 60,000 students—the vast majority of them poor and minority—attending 95 rotten Jersey schools, the worst of which have failure rates of 87 percent in standardized English tests. And a 90 percent failure rate in math.” “He is the lead plaintiff in a groundbreaking lawsuit filed yesterday [July 13th] in Newark against the New Jersey education department.”
“It seeks a remedy that makes the educrats—who’ve ruled the schools for decades too long—absolutely insane. Crawford wants to take the $16,351 in taxpayer dollars that are squandered each year in the name of educating each of his kids, and use the money for a private school.”
The guy that claimed the kids are doing as well today as in yesteryear apparently has failed to read the average high school grad’s college and/or job applications.
Definition of 12 PM in southern Georgia: Noone.
I know I’m grammatically unclean as I’ve had numerous debates with my grammar checker about all those green underlined passages. And I tossed my copy of E.B. White a long time ago.
AmerEnglish is weird, but Spanish is ass backwards and loaded with exclamation points in strange and wonderful places. The Latin temperament, perhaps?
Hell, I forgot the most important thing: Does the lady in the picture need a tutor?
Spanish punctuation is something… The theory, I can only guess, is that if it’s an exclamation or an interrogation sentence, you should know right away, so they put them in the beginning of sentences but upside down…’bout that ass backwards… you mean adjectives after substantives? It’s the same in all romanic languages. Or is it? Dunno…
PS. ECA – ALOT is:
A – Allotment
B – Adaptive Large Optics Technology
C – Airborne Adaptative Optical Tracking
Check it out…
dictionary.reference.com/browse/a%20lot
dictionary.reference.com/browse/alot
Good point! And about their and they’re (== they are) … there are those who even use “there” interchangeably. 😮
Then there is the case of weather and whether …
I guess it will be really interesting when one day you use the right grammar and end up being labelled as *wrong*.
I love the way journalists and the like go on and on about spelling. Thinking is the is the issue not spelling. In English Spelling is a club that many join but memorizing absolutely useless rules.
The tiny value of the rules is best explained by the use of spell checkers. Computers are proving the value of memorizing times tables and spelling.
There are so many important issue to be addressed, Please let us never hear again about some f—ing spelling bee!
#36…Jim….geez guy….did we maybe lose a spelling bee and the big prize in our past…..lol
What do we expect from our kids when all they see around them is the dumbing down of every aspect of society so no one will feel *hurt* when they fail or don’t get what they want. They look at Hollywood, the NBA, NFL or politicians and think, those stupid asses can make millions, why do I need to get a good education.
If a teacher is hard working and innovative she/he will most likely be canned in most school districts because they would threaten the whole system. We have thrown out the old stuff (readin, writtin, and rithmatic) and replaced it with, feel good, non-threatning, lets all get along Kum by yah crap.
School districts need to be run by locals, with the input of parents and teachers, not cost cutting or far edge theory’s, put forth by some business school grad who has never had to teach a class in their lives.
We need to stop spending money on grand palaces and build efficient useful schools and use the other money for good books and computors and good teachers. Instead of cutting out music, art or sports when money gets tight, stop bussing kids 30 miles away to class, and cut administrative saleries. It’s totally unacceptable that school administrators are getting 150,000 dollars a year and up while teachers are getting 40,000 dollars and paying for their own supplies.
When kids aren’t getting it, tutor them and hold them back if thats what it takes. Stop teaching to tests, in fact, stop making the tests the whole purpose of higher learning.
We do have bad teachers, but they aren’t the majority. The majority of teachers would love to be free to TEACH and not just prime a room full of test takers.
We have this society that expects perfection of their television reception but not their kids education…..what does that say about us?
I find It ironic that a Blog complaining about grammar (e.g. gramer, grammer, grammor [sic]) has as many errors as this one. This issue seems to come up at two-week intervals, and is usually to point out how stupid everybody else is, and how smart we (those writing in) are. I will admit that I have made some serious errors in academic papers, and other places. However, what is important is whether the facts are correct or incorrect (e.g. uncorect [sic])
Spelling, and grammar, is important in formal writing–although it’s debatable whether a Blog post, or IM is “formal”. Let’s not forget Albert Einstein had dyslexia, yet was able to come up with ideas that caused a paradigm shift in science. If you ever watch “Jeopardy!” someone usually misspells the final question, and these people are not idiots. This leads me to believe there is more wrong with the language than with the people who use/misuse it. (“To continue to do the same thing, and expect different results is the definition of crazy.”)
Good skills in writing do not translate into intelligence…it only shows an interest in the subject. Many would rather focus on pretty much anything else, hence the decline in writing. Judging by how many books kids have to carry around today, (there are reports that kids are getting bad backs form this) I can’t see how the proper amount of time to learn English skills can be allotted…maybe they’ll have to learn it on Dvorak!
P.S. If anyone wants to feel good about their writing skills simply link over to Digg and you’ll feel like Bill Shakespeare.
I learned English and have been wrong ever sence.
We were not taught english, as disgned in the British enpire.
we are taught a conglomeration of different languages rooted in english, spelt in spanish, and pronounced in German. and 1 person decided to make it even worse, Webster.
I dont think I need to add the words from the bible, or that the french have some great Dirty Words.
Really want some fun, read some code, and try to figure out someone elses shorthand, trying to explain some sub routine.
In addition to communication, writing is about discipline, respect and – taken even further – the act becomes a meta layer of nuance.
It’s very easy to throw keys at a poster’s comments. Such outbursts reveal much about the responder. If the input is unedited, should one assume the source is also unconcerned with basic hygiene, speaks with their mouth full (via breath that reflects a lack of a toothbrush) and at a volume that is a mere decibel below shouting? In polite company, it may be posited that the person is an undisciplined lout. Surely to contribute to the discussion, organizing thoughts and stating them succinctly with erudition speaks volumes about the author’s true opinion of themselves as well as his or her compatriots.
It can also be argued not bothering to proofread before posting exhibits a total disregard for gentle readers everywhere. Why anyone should be forced to discern the writer’s message when buried behind typos, misspelled words, incomprehensible grammar and inept use of common words is a mystery. Does an ignorant utterance become more profound when shouted? Is grabbing a stranger on the street and propelling a point via a closed fist de rigueur?
Finally, the play of words on the page or screen can paint a layered pastiche where the selection of syllables themselves may be accomplished to add a spice and piquant zest — or to perhaps poke fun at the refineries of the language and vocabulary. When attempted, of course, said stunt can also make for stilted prose which itself is a bore —unless, that too is an intended essence to add subtle comment coursing within the communication.
Put another way, and in the parlance of the day… life is too short not to have a giggle — and the best way is often to appear to be doing one thing while actually engaging in quite another activity.
40: Good one 🙂
By now, “ain’t” is in the dictionary, though no one really uses it anymore. There is still a place in Scotland where Knight is phonetically pronounced. American spelling is challenged in schools north of the border, though it usually makes more sense. People in different areas of London, England speak different languages and call it English. Shakespeare, Britain’s greatest literary giant, never spelled his own name the same way twice.
Standardization of language in a global society would be a good idea. We’ve tried to set it in stone since the invention of the printing press, but the darn ‘thing’ keeps evolving anyway!
Isolate a group of people for a while, and watch how language evolves.
Maybe we should all just use Chinese characters.
Well…I am not sure where all these illiterate people come from. But there are teachers and professors who are not teaching English classes that point out grammatical errors in papers. These tend to be the same people who are overworked, on top of that, doing someone else’s work too and actually being a “responsible” teacher.
They are the reason why re-read what I write and make sure what I write is concisely what is meant, proper grammar and spelling is critical in looking professional and not uneducated to other people. I grew up in a non-English speaking home and English wasn’t even my first language. There is no excuse for all these so-called critics that think correct use of the English language as “hegemonic.” It’s a freaking language…not a recipe you can change to suit your own personal taste.
By now, “ain’t” is in the dictionary,
Well, I don’t have a copy to verify, but as I recall, ain’t is in the Oxford Greater English Dictionary. It is a contraction for I am not and fell out of favor in educated society in the early 1800s.
As for the number of spelling and grammatical errors, that is why they invented the editor. If I made the mistake in the first place, the chances are that I will continue to either think that way or not even realize that there is an error. Seeing the article by an objective viewer should help find most errors.
The blog, IM, and most emails are colloquial conversations and really only need a corresponding quality of correctness.
And I’m on board with substituting the universal they for he and she.
#44 LOL the universal they for he and she
It’s funny how some languages already use this term instead of making two separate nouns to distinguish the difference.
I would also LOVe to point out that even reading books, from Asimov to Zacky, you will always find spelling and gramerical errors. I have seen FEW that even use, or Used a proofreader or spell check, even in this day and age.
Its the basic understanding, that ‘as long as you get the point’ I dont care how its spelled.
#40: In all seriousness, and without a smidgeon of base humour; I pronounce your phrase “a meta layer of nuance” the most poetic and profound tidbit I’ve stumbled across in ages.
I second Omar there… That was a nice turn of phrase 🙂
“Its the basic understanding, that ‘as long as you get the point’ I dont care how its spelled.”
ECA, I refer you to comment #40. What needs to be gotten through to people like you is that 1) misspellings, bad grammar, etc often cause the reader NOT to get a basic understanding, so your assumption is flat out wrong, and 2) it lessens the impact of what you are trying to say. If you appear ignorant because of poor writing, people will assume you are ignorant and discount what you have to say. No matter how you may want the world to work, the world doesn’t care and does what it wants.
And as for spelling errors in books, yes, in the days before spelling checkers, you will often find them because typesetters made mistakes. They are less common now because of the way books are created (ie, computer w/spell checker to computerized printer — no human typesetters). Doesn’t mean someone didn’t goof and didn’t run the text through one last time. But when you run across them, they cause you to stop, jump out of the mood and story you are reading and be momentarily annoyed for that.
and i can see you also have never been a Computer programmer.
The problem with the abandonment of the teaching of grammar is not that it leads to hard-to-read blog comments or instant messages. It is that it leads to a generation who essentially grow up without any language. Which, in essence, means a generation who can’t think. Language allows us to marshall our thoughts and ideas and communicate those to others. If there are no rules for language, there is no way for it to mean anything. It leads to people who are barely able to handle a retail job, and there had better be good pictures of everything on the cash register keys. God forbid they have to make change or write anything down! It leads to a confederacy of dunces and a society that values the Super Bowl over the Moon Landings.
Uh. Wait. Rats! Too late!
Entropy is also applicable to language. Language requires effort to keep it recognisable, else it will degenerate into a mess of letters.
I agree with #19, schools and the students they produce are not that much better or worse than they were 20 years ago. My father graduated from High School in the late 60’s and he reads at a grade-school level. John Dewey was complaining about the terrible education system in this country 100 years ago. Our system has never been great at educating people well in almost any field of study. College tries to make up for the shortcomings in K-12 but then they end up teaching 100 sections of classes in stuff that the students should have learned over the years in public schooling. I do not know if there is any easy way to fix what seems like a terminally broken system, but blaming current popular culture and TV just seems like the crotchety grandpa response. And that response to new generations has been around far longer than any school.
#50 “and i can see you also have never been a Computer programmer.”
Huh? Since you brought up programming, you should understand that misspelling the name of a variable doesn’t get flagged by a magic spell checker in your compiler. Instead, it merely refers to a new variable, creating a bug in your program that may be especially difficult to find. The only protection is using a language (or compiler option) that forces declaration of variables before their usage, so that if you misspell a variable name, chances are good that you’ve used an undeclared name that gets flagged. Other language and typing mistakes in your code have various effects, and none of them are good.
Except in text where a spell checker can operate properly, computers are generally even less forgiving than human readers. Computer programming is certainly not a refuge for imprecision.
#50: ECA, ??? What are you talking about? if you are referring to me, I was a programmer for many years. For example, I was employee #4 at Intuit and helped write the original version of Quicken.