Cripes! A Republican Congressman
If all the cars and light trucks in the nation switched from oil to electrons, idle capacity in the existing electric power system could generate most of the electricity consumed by plug-in hybrid electric vehicles. A new study for the Department of Energy finds that “off-peak” electricity production and transmission capacity could fuel 84 percent of the country’s 220 million vehicles if they were plug-in hybrid electrics.
“This is the first review of what the impacts would be of very high market penetrations of PHEVs, said Eric Lightner, of DOE’s Office of Electric Delivery and Energy Reliability. “It’s important to have this baseline knowledge as consumers are looking for more efficient vehicles, automakers are evaluating the market for PHEVs and battery manufacturers are working to improve battery life and performance.”
“We were very conservative in looking at the idle capacity of power generation assets,” said PNNL scientist Michael Kintner-Meyer. “The estimates didn’t include hydro, renewables or nuclear plants. It also didn’t include plants designed to meet peak demand because they don’t operate continuously. We still found that across the country 84 percent of the additional electricity demand created by PHEVs could be met by idle generation capacity.”
The study also looked at the impact on the environment of an all-out move to PHEVs. The added electricity would come from a combination of coal-fired and natural gas-fired plants. Even with today’s power plants emitting greenhouse gases, the overall levels would be reduced because the entire process of moving a car one mile is more efficient using electricity than producing gasoline and burning it in a car’s engine.
“The potential for lowering greenhouse gases further is quite substantial because it is far less expensive to capture emissions at the smokestack than the tailpipe. Vehicles are one of the most intractable problems facing policymakers seeking to reduce greenhouse gas emissions,” said Pratt.
Finally, the study looked at the economic impact on consumers. Since, PHEVs are expected to cost about $6,000 to $10,000 more than existing vehicles – mostly due to the cost of batteries — researchers evaluated how long it might take owners to break even on fuel costs. Depending on the price of gas and the cost of electricity, estimates range from five to eight years – about the current lifespan of a battery. Pratt notes that utilities could offer a lower price per kilowatt hour on off-peak power, making PHEVs even more attractive to consumers.
The article takes a conservative look at existing factors. There can be additions to the equation which offer a positive increase in potential; but, that isn’t the point. Which is — we already have the capacity to benefit consumers and energy producers.
Basically electric vehicles wont work because Americans insist on having a 3 hour commute to work everyday. Because that is somehow superior to living 10-15 minutes away from work….
Before the bashing occurs. Hybrids are best with stop & go travel, like around town, and bumper-to-bumper traffic.
In pure highway driving, a VW-TDI diesel will get more mileage. The only exception would be a Manual Transmission VW-TDI, where you put yourself in Neutral, and even there, you’re burning diesel.
FWIW, GM actually had a fully functional successor to the EV-1, and it was a diesel-electric hybrid, 700+ mile range. They killed the car because they won the lawsuit with California, and pulled the EV-1, and never produced it. See the Precept 80MPG http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/1267946.html
Now, because Hybrids Are Hip, http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5272
the Saturn Vue 70 MPG, and it’s a BIG SUV. Comfy.
As for the MPG ratings of the Prius, I usually BEAT the 60/51 (city/highway) numbers, though not in cold winter conditions, about 20% under. It’s called Pulse & Glide and it WORKS.
If you drive a Manual transmission, you already do Pulse & Glide w/o thinking about it, with the clutch. It’s the Automatic transmission people that have to relearn not to waste gas.
#1 — average American commute is 33 miles roundtrip. You’re living too far away from work, dude. One of the things covered in the article.
#2 — The GM “hybrids” — simply aren’t hybrids. They hook up an electric motor to supplement the gas mill. Phoney baloney.
Cripes — pulse and glide! Haven’t heard that one in over 40 years. 2-cycle SAAB owners used to do that. Always made me seasick.
Why the 6k to 10k cost to convert a Prius to PHEV?
Not the wiring, the extra batteries. The compartment is already there for them.
The current Prius & Civic hybrids are EV-2, meaning, 2 miles on pure electric.
To be really useful, you need to upgrade to get to 10 miles or more.
In my scenario, if my Prius had the EV button (the US & Can Gov’t forced Toyota & Honda to disable the EV button!!!), without any additional money, I would DOUBLE my MPG, because my commute doesn’t require speeds in excess of 35MPH (60kmh).
If I upgrade to PHEV for 10 miles, then I would only use gas occasionally, I could go 2-3 months w/o refuelling. I only do 1,000 miles a month, 5% of that at highway speeds.
My friend has a PT Cruiser, and we do almost exactly the same commute monthly. Compared to him, I’m saving 150$ per month, and comparing car payments, I’m at PAR with his new PT. My fillup is 28$ Can and his is 55$, and he fills up at least twice a week.
Bumper-to-Bumper traffic and lots of lights eats up gas like crazy.
So hybrids are definitely affordable for the middle-class with a 1/2 daily one way commute to work. Stats prove it too, over 60% of Prius & Civic Hybrid owners are middle income.
Americans insist on having a 3 hour commute to work everyday
Actually 2 1/2 hours for me.
I didn’t realize I had a choice. How does that work? Oh, you mean I should work at McDonalds because it’s close, rather than my current TLA employer, just because they pay 15 times as much?
I’m idealistic, but not THAT idealistic.
In #5’s case, if two hours are pure highway speeds, doing 100 miles one way, then perhaps a half-hour dense traffic, a Hybrid car will not save him money, compared to getting a Yaris or a VW-TDI.
However if #5 is doing 2 1/2 hours of bumper-to-bumper traffic, doing only 30 miles in total, then a Hybrid is the cheaper car, especially a PHEV.
Also, #5 represents what % of the population working that far away? According to stats, bottom 10%.
When I used to be in the 30 miles 2+ hours, I switched to the Transit Train system, free parking in the suburbs, less than 1 hour to downtown.
If you read the header here…
84%… thats to TOP our Electrical resources or Idle energy use.
and as soon as we do it, I will bet you they raise the price of electricity AGAIN. They went up 1/3 in the last 2 years.
For a Corp that doesnt OWN most of the power resources, they do cost alot.
For a corp that rents, government facilities that were built 40+ years ago, and hasnt had a Rent increase, they charge alot.
For a corp that gets MOST of there power for Gov. Facilities, that were built by the Corps of engineers, AND paid for by You and Me..we STILL get charged alot.
#6 – Or… you could live downtown… 🙂
(Unrelated note – The 15 second limit thing is BROKEN!) Unless 15 seconds and 5 minutes one thread apart is now the same thing))
WELL,
Living near a Retail store that hires 500 people, that would be 1/2 the neibhorhood. and you dont shop at the sore you work at.
Working downtown is impossible to Live in, and PARK. and forget the rents.
i dont think i need to talk about the cost of living.
Okay — if we have so much excess capacity, can someone tell me why there are areas (California for example) that have rolling blackouts / brownouts in the summer time? Perhaps John or someone else who runs this blog that lives out there can comment on that.
Mike T
thats kinda Easy..
The MAIN power to your area is from Hover dam. the lines and relay stations were setup 60 years ago, and the power company Hasnt updated most of it.
They would rather make money Selling power, then Fixing what they have.
By selling, I mean that, POWEr has become a commodity, it is bought and sold just to raise the price.
Blackouts and brownouts are caused by peak demand, usually in the summer caused by A/C. Plugged in hybrids (through a reversible meter so you sell power back when needed for the grid) can solve this problem too. It’s by far the cheapest power storage option utilities could have, because consumers buy the batteries. This relies on plug-in hybrids, not fully electric vehicles (which need their batteries fully charged). I have read that running your hybrid on power from the grid is the equivalent of $.35 a gallon gasoline.
I’ve been in California for the past 2 summers and we have not had any brownouts, rolling or otherwise. The problem in California is not the lack of power available to buy, but state laws that mandated how much and far ahead the power companies HAD to buy. When power was at a premieum back about 4 years ago, the Ca. power companies were forced to buy power at a very high rate and for several years in advance, thus power is higher here than just about anywhere in the country.
Add to that the fact that no new power generating plants have been built in Ca. for over 35 years, but population has tripled, as well as the power hungry high tech industry and the consumer gets screwed because most of the power has to be bought out of state.
Ca. in it’s zeal to be **cool** created it’s own problems with regards to power. Enviro’s refuse to allow ANY new sources to be utilized, nuke, wind or natural gas. Instead the power companies have to buy from Arizona(who has built 5 new generating plants in the Phoenix area alone in the last 4 years), or the Pacific northwest.
Some of the problems have been reduced since Arnold became Gov….and in fact, the last regular rolling brownouts were just before he got elected.
It would be nice if they would install solar cells in the roofs in cali…
It could/would give back at LEAST 25% of power use tot he system.
The problem with POWER is storage, it isnt Easy or cheap.
200 12 volt batteries could keep you running a good few days..If you dont take baths.
#2 – The Vue in your link does look pretty interesting. Hard to tell how big it really is in that picture though. Looks like a decent small car. I’ll have to do some research on it. Put that kind of power train in an Avalanche and you’re really rocking for mid-size vehicles as well. It ‘s probably not advanced enough for a big vehicle yet.
It’s ideal to be 30 miles from the nearest town. In the perfect world, if you can see your nearest neighbor, you’re in a densely populated area.
Cripes! – Hey JCD, would you expect Al Gore?
Dont tell OPEC