Don’t knock it until you’ve tried it….
And nobody got killed, or hurt, or mugged, or raped, or….
Having the little girl there is a little itchy, but you’d take her to the batting cages, or to watch a football game.
(Note the responsible use of eye and ear protection, too.)
Civilian ownership of these guns has been legislated almost out of existence since 1934. The number of these guns used in crimes since then is statistically zero.
They’re also hilariously expensive to shoot even if you can afford to buy one. But they’re fun….
A friend went to some place around Vegas and blew several hundred bucks shooting automatic weapons. He might have well as dropped it there than the slots and poker machines
As much fun as that looks like.. I don’t know if I would want a young child doing that. But, I’m not her father.
It is probably better off that I don’t have that kind of access to automatic weapons. Afterall, I play GTA Vice City and I might go on some kind of killing rampage, because I can not tell the difference between reality and a video game.
$1.25 / round in bulk, times 1000 rounds / minute = a very expensive outing.
Now that field will forever be a brown-field. All that lead will prevent it from being used for any productive purpose. Oh, I forgot, shooting MORE lead into the soil is a useful endeavor.
Actually, that little girl will have more to fear from the lessons of her dad’s obesity than she will from the use of firearms. People in this country seem to easily forget history and give so little credit to children. During the early part of this country’s history, it was quite common for children about her age to learn to use firearms. Boys in their pre-teens would go hunting with their fathers. My sister and I learned to shoot a rifle when we were not much older than her. My father learned from his father when he was about her age. If people actually taught their kids to use firearms at an early age, they wouldn’t find curiosity in “that gun that dad has” and will be less inclined to try to play with it. When I was in my teens, my father and many of his friends and their families would go out to the desert in California on a shooting spree similar to this one albeit on a substantially smaller scale (No car targets, explosions or automatic weapons). It was a family event similar to what this video where kids learned about how to safely use firearms and everyone got to shoot other people’s toys. Everyone watched everyone’s kids and ensured that safety was maintained.
I will say that just the rounds fired during the video much less the entire day would be a small fortune.
Uh, Stu, who EXACTLY is knocking it? Specifically.
I can never help but be amazed by the sheer ammount of destruction tiny bits of lead travelling at very high speeds can cause…
I saw this somewhere else before.
Not impressed at all, but I guess that this is some people’s idea of entertainment.
a) It takes ZERO skill to shoot guns like that. No skill at all. NONE. It takes more skill to be play a shoot-em-up video game… nothing is shooting back. Behaving like you are a badass just because you own a gun and can pull a trigger means nothing. Paintball is much more of a challenge… see how long ny of those redneck fools survive in a Military-Ops style Paintball round.
b) The vehicles and targets are rigged with explosives and mostly remote control detonated because the aim is too bad and the distance too great to do any real damage. Don’t be fooled into thinking that the participants are actually blowing anything up, because they aren’t… if they are hiiting anything, it buy sheer quantity of rounds headed in the general direction.
There is only one type of gun user that is worthy of respect: the military sniper. Covert approach, target discrimination, one shot to kill… that takes great skill… but the guy holding 2 Mac-10’s and unloading them without aiming at anything? He might as well just fart and produce an equally effective noise.
Lara Croft: Tomb Raider!
Who cares about skill or if they are rigged. People like noise and fire. Heck, there are holidays all around the world dedicated to big bangs and fire. Kinda funny when you think about it… all the technology in the world and we would still be distracted by somthing like this.
As a vet, I can tell you that it does take some skill to shoot an M16 effectively on the firing range. I also shot a few rounds with an M60–some skill is needed, and they do teach you a few tricks to make your shooting more effective. We had fun shooting barrels of water with the rounds, which sends the water high in the air–very impressive.
I was fortunate in my time in the Army, and didn’t have to use my training in battle, so I don’t have any idea how effective the training really was.
I find it interesting that the video shows mostly down-range footage. It is the firing line where the show is taking place i.e. full-auto Glocks, etc.
Several years ago, I stumbled across a copy of “Firepower: The magazine of the American Firepower Association” on a news-stand.
It had coverage of their annual shoot. My god. 
The firing line had just about every make/model of automatic weapon made. Sweet! And that was just the small-arms.
One guy brought a half-track in on a flat -bead trailer. He drove the half-track up to the line – with three different WW2 machine guns mounted on the rail/pintel mounts in the back.
One guy had a quad-50.cal AA mount. Another had a dual-50.cal mount from a PT-boat – mounted in the back of his pickup.
What really impressed me was the guy who had a pair of 7.62-mm GE miniguns [I didn't even know it was legal to own something like that] on a custom side-by-side mount – with a big circular aiming-circle mounted in-between them. [I believe he also had a couple of batteries to power the electric motors]
He was quoted in the article as saying he spent all year loading ammo for those guns, and would burn through it during the first day of their annual shoot.
Somebody at this shoot must have had a mini-gun. Check the video from 1:46 to 1:56 – and note that continuous “buzz”.
Funny what you can find on Google: Airsoft miniguns!
A couple of videos on how a minigun loads/fires/ejects. Also how a 50.cal machine gun fires.
People who use guns are people of lower intelligence. They are closer to animal than they are to God.
That man is not teaching his daughter to fire a gun, he is teaching her how to DESTROY.
Haven’t we seen enough destruction already? He should be teaching her how to play a musical instrument so that she can CREATE.
Guns have no purpose except to EMPOWER a user. Seek power in other forms. Guns are for losers. Guns are for the poor and weak. You want power you coward? Go out and try to impress someone by getting an education. Go out and try to create something new for humanity instead of brandishing power that serves no other purpose but to DESTROY.
It always amazes me how men who carry guns and posture themselves to be manly are so afraid to approach a beautiful, intelligent woman in a bar.It is not the size of the barrel that matters. Put down your weapons. Open your hearts.
OUTLAW GUNS! OR KILL ALL GUN OWNERS!
I´m not american, so I can only undestand partially this.
But I find it funny that this post has the highest number of paricipants, and somewhere along the line people are swapping Url´s about guns and are raving about electric mini-guns.
I´ve been to the military service and fired my two or three clips of G3 semi automatic rifle, and some Walter ppk bullets and that´s it. And attended one or two live ammo exercises. I tell you, I´d rather not have to deal with guns anymore. These toys are scary. Just the sheer power you have with one of those in the hand, and the human inclination to make mistakes makes me wonder.
When I was in the firing range, with military instructors oversseing the shooting, some dumb guys would just turned the guns to you saying: “hey, is this jammed?”. The amount of human stupidity is mind-blowing (sometimes all too literally…).
So, to wrap this up, I´m glad I don´t live in a country that has such a craze about firearms, so I can live my life without having to fire one….
For all those that agree,…oh. and, perhaps you missed it – the whole idea of that day is quite obviously to have FUN.
Last week there was an item about three youths in Florida who thought they would just have fun and went around with ball bats beating homeless men. They thought it was just fun too.
Then there is the “Jackass” movie. Some thought that was just fun too.
I now realize that you don’t need any intelligence to have fun.
I implore all to re-read #11 Awake and #20 David’s posts. Of all the posts here (excepting mine of course), they alone have some thought out reasoning behind them. Most of the other posts show some mass hysteria about “gee what fun it is to shoot things up”. It all becomes so impersonal. Impersonal that is until it is live body in front of the gun. Impersonal when there is no respect for what you have in your hands.
And there is a difference being being trained to shoot weapons in the military and just hacking away for fun like these yahoos are doing. As for your constitutional right to bear arms, with that goes the obligation to be responsible with them. There is also your constitutional right to be an asshole too, so I guess you CAN have it both ways. If you feel there is a need to protect our country in case of invasion, then join the army. They need warm bodies, intelligence required, but they might make an exception in your case.
As for learning about guns when you live in the country, fine. Teach children at an early age to respect weapons. Teach them the destructive power that high velocity weapons can do. Teach them what can happen when you are not careful. But for God’s sake, don’t teach them a 50 caliber Barret, an Uzi, or a Mac 10 make good deer rifles. Only assholes do that.
My apologies to all those who are offended by my use of certain language
To David:
> People who use guns are people of lower intelligence. They
> are closer to animal than they are to God.
Ye doth protect too much. Making such a statement displays your emasculated ignorance for all to see. Since a large a number of people in the world have “used” guns, perhaps you might want to take the time to reassess this sentiment and determine if it is your own insecurity you fear.
> Guns have no purpose except to EMPOWER a user. Seek power
> in other forms. Guns are for losers. Guns are for the poor
> and weak. You want power you coward? Go out and try to
> impress someone by getting an education. Go out and try to
> create something new for humanity instead of brandishing
> power that serves no other purpose but to DESTROY.
Cars have no purpose except to “empower” a user. Chainsaws have no use except to “empower” a user. This vapid line of thinking illustrates your ignorance about realities of the world. Ask rape victims whether having a gun would have made them a loser. Ask a victim of robbery whether having a gun would have made them a loser. Ask a person from 1933 Germany whether an armed populace would have made them a loser. Believe it or not, there are other purposes for guns such as protection and recreation. Furthermore, your arrogance about education and firearms use is wholly misplaced. There are many highly intelligent, highly educated people that enjoy shooting firearms on occasion. Just in the group of people with which my father would go out shooting, there were at least a dozen PhDs including himself along with numerous Master’s and Bachelor’s degrees.
> OUTLAW GUNS! OR KILL ALL GUN OWNERS!
One of the first steps in genocide is to disarm the populace. (Rwanda in Retrospect “…but it is nevertheless an arresting reality that not one of the principal genocides of the twentieth century, and there have been dozens, has been inflicted on a population that was armed.”)
To Pat:
> Last week there was an item about three youths in Florida
> who thought they would just have fun and went around with
> ball bats beating homeless men. They thought it was just
> fun too.
Perhaps we should ban baseball bats? Perhaps we should not let kids play with baseball bats until they are in their teens? The tool they use is not nearly as relevant as motivation and lack of parenting.
> It all becomes so impersonal. Impersonal that is until it
> is live body in front of the gun. Impersonal when there is
> no respect for what you have in your hands.
I agree that teaching children respect for life is critically important. However, believe it or not, it is possible to do that and have fun with firearms.
> If you feel there is a need to protect our country in case
> of invasion, then join the army. They need warm bodies,
> intelligence required, but they might make an exception in
> your case.
I would bet that many of the people at this event were ex-military.
> But for God’s sake, don’t teach them a 50 caliber Barret,
> an Uzi, or a Mac 10 make good deer rifles. Only assholes do
> that.
I agree. It’s one thing to have fun shooting an Uzi at a range target but it is inappropriate to use it for killing an animal. However, that has more to do with teaching people proper safety with respect to hunting specifically rather than firearms generally.
David, grow up.
You are worst then most gun owners I know. I love big explosions and fire but I am strictly against violence (oh, i think I heard a universe just implode). You on the other had call for people to “KILL ALL GUN OWNERS!” So, between us, who is the beter humanitarian. The one who like senseless destruction without anyone getting hurt (Well, a few bruised shoulders and maybe a cut forehead or two from the scope) or the person who calls for the death of others because they are having harmeless fun.
Also, the idea that “People who use guns are people of lower intelligence” is made in grave error. I belong to a rocketry club where more then a few are hunters and most own a gun. Of them, many are great at physics, chemestry and problem solving. Are you saying that these people are of lower intelegence?
Hum, John I thought you love the constitution, you are saying in many posts that Bush is violating the constitution. So what is so bad about the second admendment. Or is the constitution only the parts you like and the way you want it interperted? John you are showing you are being a bit hyicritical here.
It’s a stretch worthy of sub-intelligent design to connect John’s video to an attack on the 2nd amendment.
MIchael, I have no idea what you are trying to say. I didn’t even metnion the second amendment. And if I had the chance to shoot up a hillside of junk like that, I’d do it myself (if someone else bought the bullets). You’re making no sense at all. DO you read weird constitutional attacks in everything you see? Geez.
A gun is a tool, just like a hammer or a chainsaw.
I used to be all for super-strict gun control until I actually learned how to use one properly. A close reading of the 2nd amendment is required too.
In an age of ‘homeland security’ and almost unlimited presidential powers maybe it’s not such a bad idea that they’re still legal in this country. Hitler used gun control in the 30’s to ensure no resistance. Jewish veterans of WW1 were even disarmed of ceremonial sabres and knives.
It’s amazing how anyone using a gun is automatically headed for trouble or will turn out wrong in the eyes of so many. Political correctness really has taken its toll. I’ll bet most of you scoff at the idea that video games turn kids into criminals yet you think shooting guns at a range will.
Personally I find shooting guns relaxing. It takes concentration and focus and you can put everything else out of your mind. It takes eye hand coordination and the ability to learn to handle different guns with different loads, etc. It’s fun. And all you cowards who think people turn evil the moment they get into shooting are just ignorant.
Political correctness is SUPPOSED to be having an open mind towards those who are in some way different, including their interests and beliefs. Instead it allows for condemning those who think differently. Race and sexual preferences are the only accepted variables by the politically correct. Lemmings.
If you feel there is a need to protect our country in case of invasion, then join the army.
Yeah, so you can protect our country from invasion while being stationed in Iraq or Afghanistan.
Sheesh…
There are lots of full-auto weapons out there, but you don’t read about them being used to hold-up a liquor store, do you?
Does the average bank robber wheel a minigun to the teller window?
The people in the video understand the destructive capabilities of those weapons exactly because they see it demonstrated on a regular basis.
There are lots of full-auto weapons out there, but you don’t read about them being used to hold-up a liquor store, do you?
Last week some criminal types got into a shoot out with police in Texas. And yes they used full automatic weapons while covering their smuggling buddies cross the Rio Grande.
Personally I find shooting guns relaxing. It takes concentration and focus and you can put everything else out of your mind. It takes eye hand coordination and the ability to learn to handle different guns with different loads, etc. It’s fun. And all you cowards who think people turn evil the moment they get into shooting are just ignorant.
Just like all those people just blazing away willy nilly at targets too far away to aim at. The guy firing twin auto-pistols at waist height was sure taking his time to aim. Anyone could see by the amount of dirt kicked up how many shots were hitting their targets. They were sure trying hard to be responsible.
Cars have no purpose except to “empower” a user
Wrong. A car is a mode of transportation designed to move people and goods from point A to point B. Occasionally they may be used incorrectly and people get hurt, but that is not their intended use.
Chainsaws have no use except to “empower” a user.
Wrong. A chainsaw was designed to fell trees and cut large limbs. A very dangerous tool, it should only be used by trained people.
Perhaps we should ban baseball bats? Perhaps we should not let kids play with baseball bats until they are in their teens?
A baseball bat is designed to be used in a game. In short, it is a wooden club with peaceful intentions. If such a club scares you then I would suggest you stay away from ALL baseball games. If you get uncontrollable urges when holding a baseball bat, then maybe professional help is in order.
You are worst then most gun owners I know. I love big explosions and fire but I am strictly against violence
Yup, that explains a lot. You might want to see a professional about your love of big explosions and fire before Homeland Insecurity visits you.
I would bet that many of the people at this event were ex-military.
Maybe some were. I imagine though that any VETERAN would not really want to be a part of this. A veteran that has seen what weapons can do to a body. I doubt that many who have trained on these weapons would treat them so cavalierly. The cooks, truck drivers, and clerks might find it an exciting exercise though.
In an age of ‘homeland security’ and almost unlimited presidential powers maybe it’s not such a bad idea that they’re still legal in this country.
Hey buddy, guess what? While you might have some M-16s, the government has F-16s. You can tear around in your Jeep CJs, they have M1A1 Abrams Tanks. They have Bradley Fighting Vehicles. They have Apache Helicopters. They have bullet resistant vests. They have Drone Aircraft sneaking up on you. They have M-60s. They have fragmentation grenades. They have a thousand other types of weapons all bigger then your Mac 10, or Glock, or M-16.
And my last question to all those that love firing guns like in this video. Do you wear baggy pants so your erection doesn’t show?
Michael P. O\’Connor
There is an old poster about “Put brain in gear before engaging mouth”. I didn’t write it, but I find it better then flapping off about something I know nothing about.
I’ve been a competition shooter since I graduated basic training over 20 years ago. Over the years I’ve had the privilege of introducing many new people to the sport, women, men and youths. Without exception, those that have chosen to continue in the sport have been safe and courteous shooters. However shooting is not for everyone. Some have fear or the feeling of revulsion at holding a potential weapon that cannot be overcome. I would submit to those that have never fired a live gun (and will not due to the afore mentioned fear and/or revulsion) Any thing can be made into a weapon if a person is so inclined. In the hands of safe, sane, well trained shooters a firearm is a tool just like a hockey stick or a football. I would admonish those that choose not to participate by saying: It’s ok to knock it, but don’t you dare think you can keep me from trying it.
“No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.”
-Thomas Jefferson
and ….
“Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest.” — Mahatma Gandhi
RE: “Empowerment’
> Wrong. A car is a mode of transportation designed to move
> people and goods from point A to point B. Occasionally they
> may be used incorrectly and people get hurt, but that is
> not their intended use.
>A chainsaw was designed to fell trees and cut large
> limbs. A very dangerous tool, it should only be used by
> trained people.
You clearly did not understand my response. ALL tools “empower” the user in some way or they aren’t useful. Guns are tools that have a purpose in society as do automobiles and chainsaws. Guns are used for hunting, general recreation (target shooting and such) and protection. Guns, like chainsaws and automobiles, require proper training in order to be used safely.
> A baseball bat is designed to be used in a game. In short,
> it is a wooden club with peaceful intentions. …
Unsurprisingly, you against missed the point. Like ALL tools a baseball bat can be abused. Like ALL tools it requires proper training and instruction to allow children to use that tool for its intended purpose in a safe manner. Guns are no different.
> imagine though that any VETERAN would not really want to be
> a part of this. A veteran that has seen what weapons can do
> to a body. I doubt that many who have trained on these
> weapons would treat them so cavalierly. The cooks, truck
> drivers, and clerks might find it an exciting exercise
> though.
You clearly do not know many veterans. Coming from a family with a long history of military service and knowing many people both in and out of the military I do not believe I have met one military person that did not enjoy shooting firearms (cleaning firearms is a different story ;->).
IMO, “cavalier” implies negligent or unsafe and I saw nothing of that in this video. All people were wearing proper eye and ear protection and were safely behind a firing line.
> Hey buddy, guess what? While you might have some M-16s, the
> government has F-16s. You can tear around in your Jeep CJs,
> they have M1A1 Abrams Tanks…
This is another incredibly ignorant response from someone that obviously knows absolutely nothing about how the military operates. Technically, the government could nuke the entire area and kill everyone. If, on the other hand, the military wants to control an area without completely eradicating the population, it is SUBSTANTIALLY more difficult against an armed civilian population even if they only have handguns. Even with body armor, Abrams, Apaches, A-10s and the like, it would be exponentially more costly in terms of lives, time and resources to subdue a country where the civilian population was armed.
Last week some criminal types got into a shoot out with police in Texas. And yes they used full automatic weapons while covering their smuggling buddies cross the Rio Grande
I mention robbing liquor stores, and you equate that to para-military groups protecting cross-border drug smugglers?
Come on, Pat.
If you had referenced the “North Hollywood Shootout” of 1997, you would have had a stronger argument:
http://www.student.oulu.fi/~hmikkola/shootout.html
But, you would still have the dearth of similar examples relative to the vast number of these weapons that have been in civilian hands for decades.
i.e.
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcfullau.html
sample:
Again in Targeting Guns, Kleck writes, four police officers were killed in the line of duty by machine guns from 1983 to 1992. (713 law enforcement officers were killed during that period, 651 with guns.)
In 1980, when Miami’s homicide rate was at an all-time high, less than 1% of all homicides involved machine guns. (Miami was supposedly a “machine gun Mecca” and drug trafficking capital of the U.S.) Although there are no national figures to compare to, machine gun deaths were probably lower elsewhere. Kleck cites several examples:
* Of 2,200 guns recovered by Minneapolis police (1987-1989), not one was fully automatic.
* A total of 420 weapons, including 375 guns, were seized during drug warrant executions and arrests by the Metropolitan Area Narcotics Squad (Will and Grundie counties in the Chicago metropolitan area, 1980-1989). None of the guns was a machine gun.
* 16 of 2,359 (0.7%) of the guns seized in the Detroit area (1991-1992) in connection with “the investigation of narcotics trafficking operations” were machine guns.
A gun is a tool, just like a hammer or a chainsaw.
In the Modern world, only Guns are designed to kill. There are other tools that may be converted to kill, but that is not their primary purpose. Only a gun is designed to kill. Only if your job entails killing could the gun be a useful tool. And as with any tool, practice with that tool makes one a better craftsman. So you could take your choice, be a better carpenter or a better killer. If you want to make a connection between guns and cars then try that on some NRA asshole, I don’t buy it. (nailguns are an exception to this rule)
I am not totally against guns. Even though I don’t hunt, I fully support the right of anyone to hunt game and harmful varmints. There is a huge difference, however, between competition shooting and what is shown in the video.
Sure these people were wearing eye and hearing protection. That doesn’t forgive the “cowboy” (and I apologize to any real cowboys out there) mentality that just blindly firing off all those rounds is somehow a sport, or FUN. The young girl and the adult standing with the two machine pistols are evidence that these people don’t have the calm, concentration, and determination of a competition shooter or the hunter in a field. They were being destructive for the sake of being destructive and because they could afford it. Just like those kids in Florida that thought it would be fun to be destructive to swing a baseball bat at some homeless guy. That was just pure destructive fun.
The way to change or stop the excesses with Bush and other Republicans is to vote. If you disagree with them then let them know; especially your Congressman up for re-election. Holding a gun in your hand while you leave it up to others to vote makes you just as bad and part of the problem.
John W.
Thank you for sharing your story. I apologize if this has brought back memories best forgotten.
Universal gun ownership is no guarantee of “freedom from tyranny”. Every Iraqi over the age of 16 owned an AK-47 or equivalent, and yet submitted to a tyrant for decades.
The young girl and the adult standing with the two machine pistols are evidence that these people don’t have the calm, concentration, and determination of a competition shooter or the hunter in a field.
Evidence? You are basing your judgement of these people’s abilities and competencies after watching a few minutes of video.
Just because the weapons shown are completely useless for hunting or competition shooting does not mean any of those people do not own weapons perfectly suited to those endeavors – or that they would not be competent at using them.
They were being destructive for the sake of being destructive and because they could afford it.
Those people have all registered with the BATF and their States, and accepted the responsibility of maintaining a weapon that cannot be easily disposed of – since every transfer of ownership must be documented. Which is probably why most crimes are not committed with “machine guns” – because their owners are all “on file”.
They are shown using those weapons in the only way they can legally be used – firing off a lot of ammo, really fast. Not my cup of tea, but not a danger to society.
Just like those kids in Florida that thought it would be fun to be destructive to swing a baseball bat at some homeless guy.
You’ve mentioned this a couple of times, and I still don’t think it is a valid argument in this context.
This fine father is merely teaching his daughter that happiness is a warm gun. And if she continues her study of the safe and effective use of firearms, her chances of being raped or robbed goes down significantly.
“Just like those kids in Florida that thought it would be fun to be destructive to swing a baseball bat at some homeless guy. That was just pure destructive fun.”
NO – that was pure fricken evil. Please know the difference.
> In the Modern world, only Guns are designed to kill.
I have no idea what you mean by “designed to kill.” One could argue that is true of any weapon (oh, and almost anything can be used as a weapon). Are all knives “designed to kill”? What’s the difference between a knife that is “designed to kill” and one that is not? This sounds suspicously like the idiots that passed the assault weapons ban in California. Basically, weapons that look scary were banned. Mechnically and functionally, there are no different from any other gun.
>Only if your job entails killing could the gun be a useful tool.
So, biathlon competitors have jobs that designed to kill? Expert target shooters have jobs that are “designed to kill.” Even the police are specifically trained *not* to kill and last I checked they all carry firearms. You cannot seem to separate the tool from the way it is used. The tool is designed to propel an object at very high velocity in a consistent and accurate manner. What you do with that tool is an entirely different matter.
>There is a huge difference, however, between
> competition shooting and what is shown in the video.
There is one commonality amongst competition shooting and this video: fun. These people are using their guns in a safe manner and having fun doing it. In addition, what is not shown is how much target shooting actually took place before the grand finale.
> That doesn’t forgive the “cowboy” (and I apologize to any
> real cowboys out there) mentality that just blindly firing
> off all those rounds is somehow a sport, or FUN.
Why? What is so wrong with what they are doing? No one is getting hurt by this activity. They are participating in the equivalent of a Fourth of July event where everyone gets to shoot the fireworks instead of just a few people.
> Just like those kids in Florida that thought it would be
> fun to be destructive to swing a baseball bat at some
> homeless guy.
There is VAST difference: in the case of the shooters, the participants are having fun while trying to ensure no one gets hurt whereas in the Florida case people are participating in an activity specifically designed to hurt someone. That you are incapable of seeing the difference between the two is far more disturbing than the video. Just as there is a vast difference between an ignorant racist idiot shouting anti-Semitic propaganda and actually *acting* on that rhetoric in a way that hurts people so is there a difference between shooting a bunch of machine guns on a range and actually shooting *at* someone.
>The way to change or stop the excesses with Bush
>and other Republicans is to vote
And this is relevant to this video or the discussion how?
What I like most about this is that AdWords is delivering classifieds for “Classic Cars” and “Automotive CRM” alongside a burning hulk of Detroit’s finest. Internet serendipity at its finest!
I find it horrifying that guns like that exist, but I’m glad all those bullets are going into a hillside and not people. Paintball seems like it’s way more satisfying.
People who buy guns “for protection” are just fooling themselves. Having a gun doesn’t automatically make you safe, and can even put you in more danger.
Mike and Thomas
Neither can see the connection between having fun and having fun. You justify one method, because you think like the participants. You dislike the other because it repulses you. All the participants in both scenarios only think of the fun.
Are all knives “designed to kill”? What’s the difference between a knife that is “designed to kill” and one that is not?
A knife is used to cut. It can separate meat into smaller parts for eating. It may be attached to a turning cylinder and used to smooth wood. It may be used to slit steel into usable sizes. A very common and useful tool.
Even the police are specifically trained *not* to kill and last I checked they all carry firearms.
Yup. Police are trained to shoot to kill. The idea that they are trained to shoot to injure or stop is Hollywood bullcrap. When they squeeze that trigger, they are aiming to kill.
So, biathlon competitors have jobs that designed to kill? Expert target shooters have jobs that are “designed to kill.”
Biathlon is a Nordic sport based on traveling on skis and shooting a target. It is not a job and they are not paid to be biathlon athletes. Target Shooting is the same thing. People are not paid to shoot targets all day. They are both SPORTS, not to be confused with jobs. Some may test the guns in the factories, they are not target shooting. Target guns, for the most part, make poor hunting weapons with the exception of skeet shooting.
The biathlon is a sport that has grown out of military form. The javelin and shot putt are others.
There is one commonality amongst competition shooting and this video: fun.
I think most serious target shooters don’t consider their sport FUN. They might use more appropriate words like, enjoyable, satisfying, or relaxing.
Evidence? You are basing your judgement of these people’s abilities and competencies after watching a few minutes of video.
Yup !!! You got it !!! Because that is what this post is about. Those yahoo idiots blazing away with no purpose in mind. It is not about hunting, biathlons, competition target shooting, or useful tools. None of those actually apply to this video. I don’t care how doting a Dad he might be. Allowing his daughter to shoot a machine gun shows me enough of his parenting skill to seriously think about sterilizing some people is a good policy.
currently, i have a gun and don’t need it. i’m no less safe having it – the gun has yet to jump out of the locked drawer and shoot me, and i’m quite sure it’s not going to.
And this is not a problem. The gun is being treated with respect and is unavailable to any random passerby. And may you never need to use it either.
Pat,
Every time you open your mouth stupid falls out. I won’t debate you point for point here as others have done so in an effective military manner, you have demonstrated that your idiocy knows no bounds.
To all who have served this, the greatest country on the face of the earth, thank you.
To those of you offended by the video, you may thank those who did serve for your right to be offended. I don’t have to like what you say but I defend your right to say it. Except for Pat, my service in no way was intended to defend your right to be so damn ignorant, you and the “all males over 16 had guns in Iraq” commenter, he’s a moron too. Remember, all generalizations are false.
Navy guy
> Neither can see the connection between having fun and having fun.
There is no question that two sides of a tautology have a connection. Yep. Flawless logic.
> Are all knives “designed to kill”? What’s the difference
> between a knife that is “designed to kill” and one that is
> not?
>
> A knife is used to cut….
You don’t get it. Suppose I have two knives. What characteristics make one knife “designed to kill” and another knife not? Is a sword “designed to kill”? What about a letter opener sized sword? What about a dagger? What about a sharp piece of glass? What exactly are the parameters by which something is “designed to kill”?
> Even the police are specifically trained *not* to kill and
> last I checked they all carry firearms.
>
> Yup. Police are trained to shoot to kill. The idea that
> they are trained to shoot to injure or stop is Hollywood
> bullcrap. When they squeeze that trigger, they are aiming
> to kill.
The police are trained NOT to kill unless lives are in eminent jeopardy. They are responsible for every bullet that comes from their gun. If they shoot, they better have damn good justification or else they lose their job. Perhaps it is you that have been watching too many movies.
> So, biathlon competitors have jobs that designed to kill?
> Expert target shooters have jobs that are “designed to
> kill.”
>
> Biathlon is a Nordic sport based on traveling on skis and
> shooting a target. It is not a job and they are not paid to
> be biathlon athletes.
That *was* true when the Olympics had nothing but amateur athletes.
> Target Shooting is the same thing.
> People are not paid to shoot targets all day.
One word: endorsements.
> They are both SPORTS, not to be confused with jobs.
Oooooh….So Kobe Bryant, Tom Brady and Roger Clemens don’t have jobs. Got it.
> There is one commonality amongst competition shooting and
> this video: fun.
>
> I think most serious target shooters don’t consider their
> sport FUN. They might use more appropriate words like,
> enjoyable, satisfying, or relaxing.
You do realize you have not seen all the events that occurred that day. It is likely that earlier in the day or perhaps in another area were “serious” target shooters. By the way, I might be off on this one, but I suspect that the vast majority of people would consider an event that was “enjoyable, satisfying and relaxing” as fun.
> I don’t care how doting a Dad he might
> be. Allowing his daughter to shoot a machine gun shows me
> enough of his parenting skill to seriously think about
> sterilizing some people is a good policy.
This remark coming from the person that wanted to kill all gun owners. Quite the pacifist poster child you are.
Since you don’t understand the role of guns in society or worse, you think you understand when you don’t, you automatically ridicule that which you find perplexing. You should get out a bit more. See more of the country and not just the cities. Believe it or not, real people live, with lots of guns even, outside the major metropolitan areas, have done so for hundreds of years in this country alone and managed not wipe out humanity in those areas. You’d find it amazing. They actually teach their children how to use firearms properly and manage not shoot themselves or anyone else.
I am ammazed at the number of commentors who seem unable to say that it is wrong for a father to allow, or even encourage his daughter to shoot such a weapon. Are we unable to make any kind of judgment these days? Can we not say it is wrong?
Personal Opinion Only:
I am a white collar professional manager, with a career in the information tech field (reaching back to the big iron, punch card, assembly programming days).
I am also a gun collector and recreational shooter. I own many historic rifles and several modern ones. I shoot in pistol competition and high power rifle. I do enjoy the focus, relaxation and camaraderie of the shooting sports. I use hundreds and hundreds of rounds of ammo every year, one shot at a time. I used to hunt (25+ years ago), but I now live in a fairly urban area, and even though the deer wander through my back yard, I would rather just let them eat the flowers and wander back into the trees.
Additionally, I do like to occasionally take something which has greatly annoyed me (e.g. a hard drive which crashed and caused me heartburn) out to the range and just blow the (*&&^%$ out of it, even if I do spend WAY too much time picking up the pieces later.
In both cases, shooting is fun for me. Yes, FUN! In most men there seems to be a genetic predilection for loud noises and blowing things up, and I’m no exception. There is nothing which makes hard-core rapid fire destruction absolutely exclusive from controlled target shooting.
Can we not say it is wrong?
Sure, Patrick, but what is your objection to it? Honestly, I’d like to know, as I’m not sure what the harm is, as long as it’s done in a safe manner.
I should mention, too, that I suspect the fellow in the video is not the girl’s father, but just the owner of the gun.
Patrick,
“Can we not say it is wrong?”
Why can’t I say that its NOT wrong? As long as safety is practiced – its not. But thats my opinion. Just like saying its wrong is your’s.
Pueso,
If we could believe everything we see on the net I’d have a billion dollars, a 29′ penis and would live in the playboy mansion cause you can you know, just as long as you go here http://www.freebigpenisandbilliondollarsandliveintheplayboymansion.com
In all seriousness. I have family and friends who have done their time (and some are going back) in Iraq and they will tell you that yes, guns are out of control and far too prevalent but it has gotten much better and no, there is no way in hell “every Iraqi over the age of 16 had an AK47″.
And I’m sorry I called you a moron, you obviously have some ability to reason, not Pat though, he’s still an idiot. But hey, if ignorance is bliss Pat has got to be one happy citizen.
Navy Guy
“The police are trained NOT to kill unless lives are in eminent jeopardy. They are responsible for every bullet that comes from their gun. If they shoot, they better have damn good justification or else they lose their job.”
Your prior post>Even the police are specifically trained *not* to kill and last I checked they all carry firearms.
Ya, right. How many cops do you know that have been held to task for killing or even just shooting someone. Sounds like I caught you contradicting yourself. Either they are trained to kill when they shoot or they are not trained to kill. Which is it?
“Oooooh….So Kobe Bryant, Tom Brady and Roger Clemens don’t have jobs. Got it.”
Professional athletes might play a sport, but they don’t play the game AS A SPORT. They are paid to win. They are not paid to play fair, give a break, or not take advantage of their opponent. Your meandering thought process is showing the weakness of your position.
Now shall we tackle the knife argument. A knife is a tool. As with any tool, it may be used for purposes not intended. Using a screwdriver to pry off a lid is an example of using a tool for an unintended use. Stabbing someone with a screwdriver is also an unintended use. Clobbering someone in the head with a Nine Iron is not what it was intended for. Running over someone with an asphalt roller is not what it was intended for. Wacking someone with a shovel is not what it was intended for. Shooting someone with a nail gun is not what that was intended for. Shooting someone with a FIREARM is just what it was intended for. (With the exception of target guns)
Using a knife wrong is irresponsible. So is the incorrect use of a screwdriver, or asphalt roller, or Nine Iron, or shovel wrong and irresponsible. They may also be deadly.
You are right about swords, daggers, stilletos, foils, sabers, garrote, and other single use weapons. They also have minimal use other then as collector items. I have yet to see any videos of of a two handed idiot making stabbing / slashing motions with machine swords. I have yet to see a video of a father teaching his daughter the joys of using a garrote.
Which would you rather face, someone with a loaded Mac 10 or someone with a knife?
“This remark coming from the person that wanted to kill all gun owners. Quite the pacifist poster child you are.”
Uh, pardon me? Could you point to the post where I wished death on anyone?
“Since you don’t understand the role of guns in society or worse, you think you understand when you don’t, you automatically ridicule that which you find perplexing.”
Now where the f*** do you come up with this crap. Obviously you haven’t read my posts. You’re arguments are not only empty, but now they are asinine. I know the role of guns in society. I have seen what guns can do to people. I’ve felt the blood drip through my fingers. I’ve seen a life flicker out. I saw my tears mixing with the gore on the pavement. I wondered why. The mother’s screams will haunt me until the day I die. He was so little.
Don’t pretend that you know some bullshit about “I have a right”. Your posts show you know s***. Your right includes the responsibility to treat ALL weapons with respect. This video shows at least two instances of people being irresponsible. The only defense I could accept would be their limited intelligence.
The United States has the highest murder rate by far of ALL western society. The majority of homicides are committed using guns. Guns or the threat of guns are used in almost every bank robbery. Each year, more people are killed or injured with a gun kept for defensive purposes then are criminals shot. You don’t like those statistics, try the FBI, they release the same old numbers each year.
As I said before. Responsible gun owners and use are not the issue. Even though I don’t hunt, I have no problem with those that do. Full automatic weapons make very poor hunting guns and even worse target guns. A responsible hunter does not need a 10 round clip, let alone a 30 round clip or magazine.
Given the choice, I would much rather face some crazed idiot waving a knife then a Mac 10.
I would like to point out that murder is illegal to begin with. If guns are outlawed, do you think someone with the intent of killing another person (which is illegal) cares if it is done with a legal instrument, its still murder (which is illegal).
It is also naieve to think that people will stop heinous acts just because guns are removed. People who kill others are sick and twisted indivisuals to begin with. They will just need to be a bit more creative.
Biff
Sorry to see your 29′ penis is coming out your ear.
paul
Could you point to the post where I wished death on gun owners? Only two paragraphs after your diatribe above you quote me saying I support those that wish to hunt. Hhhmmm, you’re sounding a little hysterical on that one.
And of course you see no problem with the video. You wouldn’t either.
Some safety statistics for you for 2002, by the Center for Disease Control
Cause of death:
Assaults:
(Homicide) by discharge of firearms……11,546
(Homicide) by other means…………………..5,500
Legal Intervention………………………………….365
War………………………………………………………..21
Events of Undetermined Intent
Discharge of firearms, undetermined intent..214
Accidental discharge of firearms*……………..813
Suicide
by discharge of firearm………………………….16,882
by other and unspecified means………………13,732
Injury by Firearms,………………………………..29,737
Motor Vehicle Accidents**……………………..44,572
*classified under accidents, not further defined.
**for comparison
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr52/nvsr52_13.pdf
Table 2, page 18 and 19
I am unable to find statistics about the number of people killed by knives in the US or any other country. Perhaps you know of a link comparing the two. You know, to bolster your argument about their danger.
I’ve lived in both kinds of countries… with and without gun control laws.
I’ve seen gun control in real life scenarios and I’m convinced… gun laws works.
This was your original comment from #40:
>Only if your job entails killing could the gun be a useful tool.
I suggested that professional bialthetes use guns and their job does not entail killing. If there is even one bialthete that gets endorsements, then their job IS their sport and I didn’t even mention range masters. This still ignores the obvious fact that a tool for protection can also be used for recreation like swords.
Then you retorted with this ridiculous response:
> Professional athletes might play a sport, but they don’t
> play the game AS A SPORT. They are paid to win.
You are pointlessly attempting to draw a line between those that play a sport to win (btw, why play a [competition] sport if you are not trying to win?) and those that get paid to play a sport (but not to win?). This line of thinking is wholly irrelevant to the fact that there are uses for guns besides killing. I need only name one, such as recreation, to establish that point.
> They are not paid to play fair, give a break, or not take advantage
> of their opponent.
Where you were going with this I have no idea. Are somehow suggesting that professional athletes are paid to cheat?
>Now where the f*** do you come up with this crap…
I think Paul Theodoropoulos answered this nicely.
>I know the role of guns in society.
No, you think you know because you have apparently experienced a tragedy. I am empathetic for your loss, but you are still blaming the tool and not the person and events that caused the tragedy to hurt someone. If your tragedy had occurred with a knife, chainsaw or even Drano, would you then call for a ban on those items?
>This video shows at least two instances of people being irresponsible.
What would those be?
The only reason that I wouldn’t show this (which I most likely will) to by 10 and 12 year old boys, is that they would beg me to go. Looks like more fun than Disneyland to me. The only problem is that it would probably cost more.
I am sure that the little girl will have a lot more severe issues to deal with in life then going out with the old man to play with some big boys toys. If you can’t understand why guys like to blow stuff up, then maybe you should stay home, sit on the couch and eat some Tofu and watch Dr Phil while doing your nails.
I’m sure that a trip to a machine gun shoot would be cheaper than a trip to Disney, if you you went to watch and didn’t buy a machine gun while you were there.
The best thing about this country is that you can make your own decisions as to what is right for yourself instead of being forced, or at least it is still somewhat that way. So many people want to impose their own views and opinions on others with legislation. They want to retain their rights while taking rights from others. In the end, they take eveyone’s freedom away, law by law. That is what I call “lower intelligence”
One the other hand, you should still retain your feedom of speech, whatever you opinion. That being said… I think that strict gun control has worked well for France, Britan and Hitler. Besides, the french might drop their guns and damage them
Typical Amerika- this is what an European thinks 
Too bad we don’t live in a country that banns civilians from having guns, but sells weapons to tyransts!!!!
America is not perfect by any means, but go and try to protest over in China, Nepal, South Africa, Somalia, Cuba, Colombia, MEXICO, and so many others that why even bother with you!!
Don’t forget Europe has not won one single war without “THE AMERICANS!!!!
“Abandon your animosities and make your sons Americans” Robert. E Lee
i LOVE guns! i believe in God, FATE & KARMA! do NOT believe in BLOWING AWAY INNOCENT ANIMALS & calling that “sport.” there are sick & disturbing people who RAPE & MURDER or have SEX with children & they feel this is a sport for them. since it IS something they seem to enjoy doing NO matter how many lives they destroy. the problem with OPINIONS is that if an opinion causes the death or destruction of someone or something, then that certain opinion should have NO merit or value in our society. opinions that do NOT cause harm to others then that opinion should be allowed to exist. as for being interested in big guns & enjoying (i admit it) their “deadly” beauty, i have NEVER nor WOULD I EVER harm another living thing! i am a LONG TIME vegetarian & do not understand why supposedly DECENT law abiding people enjoy hunting & killing helpless, terrified & innocent animals! they should always remember “its NEVER any fun when the rabbit has the gun!” but as for target shooting at bottles or cans? its great fun if you can afford it!
“Which would you rather face, someone with a loaded Mac 10 or someone with a knife?”
At close range? I would much rather face the MAC-10 than the knife, as would almost everybody who knows anything about close-quarters combat.
As to the rest of your post, you merely fight fact and logic with emotion and hysteria.
I’d like to take the time to dissect your argument and topple each point like a house of cards, but I’m leaving for the gun range now. I’ll just leave the task up to others; I have little to say that these fine people quoted below haven’t already said:
*****
“A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity. ~Sigmund Freud”
“The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes….Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. ~Thomas Jefferson”
“You cannot invade mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass. ~Admiral Yamamoto”
(Advising Japan’s military leaders of the futility of an invasion of the mainland United States because of the widespread availability of guns. It has been theorized that this was a major contributing factor in Japan’s decision not to land on North America early in the war when they had vastly superior military strength. This delay gave our industrial infrastructure time to gear up for the conflict and was decisive in our later victory.)
“The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that the supply of arms to the underdogs is a sine qua non for the overthrow of any sovereignty. ~Adolf Hitler”
“A free people ought to be armed. ~George Washington”
“Americans have the right and advantage of being armed, unlike the people of other countries, whose leaders are afraid to trust them with arms. ~James Madison”
“Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom. ~John F. Kennedy”
“That rifle on the wall of the laborer’s cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there. ~George Orwell”
“If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun. ~The Dalai Lama”
“There’s no question that weapons in the hands of the public have prevented acts of terror or stopped them. ~Israeli Police Inspector General Shlomo Aharonisky”
car transport, auto transport, auto moving, car moving, car shipping
Comment Moderation is Active, so if your comment doesn't
- Monday’s PC Magazine Column Online and print columns posted for online viewing
- Spam! End it! Here’s How.
Subscribe to Main Blog feed here:
Subscribe to Comments too (below):
