Graphic from website boasting about how Pakistan can hit India with its new missiles
BBC NEWS | South Asia | Pakistan ‘role in Mumbai attacks’ — I wonder how long before these two nuclear powers — with a thousands years of pent-up religious resentment — exchange a couple of big bombs. This brings it closer.
Pakistan’s intelligence agency was behind the train blasts in Mumbai in July that killed 186 people, Indian police say.
The attacks were planned by the ISI and carried out by the Islamist militant group Lashkar-e-Toiba, based in Pakistan, Mumbai’s police chief said.
AN Roy said the Students’ Islamic Movement of India had also assisted.
Pakistan rejected the allegations and said India had given no evidence of Pakistani involvement in the attacks.
“We have solved the 11 July bombings case. The whole attack was planned by Pakistan’s ISI and carried out by Lashkar-e-Toiba and their operatives in India,” Mumbai (Bombay) police commissioner AN Roy told a news conference.
related link:
Outstanding analysis of India-Pakistan nuclear exchange
Kinda creepy, but I wouldn’t mind seeing a nuclear exchange between those 2 countries. I don’t know, but I do remember being stuck to the old boob-tube watching the 9/11 attack, the tidal wave, Katrina
I guess all thats left for “MUST SEE TV” is a Nuclear Holocust
I’ve read there’s insufficient command and control with their nuclear weapons. Field commanders can have launch authority in battle. That is worrisome considering the level of hate on both sides.
Just our luck it would happen so fast there would be any chance to cover the exchange live. I guess we will have to settle for the aftermath. I hope they give a little warning so I can make some popcorn.
Story:
I remember a day at the engineering company where I once worked, which had some ex-military guys on the staff in the next room, and there was some talk on the radio about a peace conference going on. One of those guys (formerly an Air Force non-com) yelled out, “Peace?? I HATE peace!”. Another guy who’d been in submarines called out how much he agreed with it. It sounded like the bored cry of armchair warriors everywhere.
(the same guy who made that loud comment had earlier told me how he’d watched a close friend get his head blown off in Viet Nam).
But don’t worry. You can rest assured that it won’t come here, aside from a few buildings getting knocked down, or maybe a few schoolteachers or principals getting offed by grade school wimps who’ve been bullied around too much. All those perps really want to do is get their names on international TV, anyway, it’s not a big deal.
So, relax, order a pizza and crack a cold one and sit back and watch the fun. You’ll enjoy checking out rabid religious fanatics turning each other into bloody skinless meat. Serves ’em right!
Pika-don!!
I have just one question, though. What is there to “hate” about anything, really? How did people get this way?
But Pakistan is our friend! We love that military dictator, don’t we?
Who the hell cares about India, anyway? We only have lots of trade with it and it has a democratic government, but that an d$2 will get you on the subway!
seriously, though, I want to hear from all those who are so hot to attack and maintain a war in Iraq, who never did anything to us, and yet support our partnership with Pakistan, whose fingers seem to be in a lot of evil, including 9/11.
The NY Times article on the story notes that India always blames Pakistan for terrorist attacks, and generally refuses to let others view the ‘evidence.’
I don’t anticipate a nuclear exchange.
Remember…
india and pakistan are creations of the great decider, England! They looked at the country and said… hmmm.. Muslims on the west (pakistan) and one the east (bangladesh nee east pakistan) and let’s throw the hindus in the middle!!! Now, remember, the hindu’s are ferverently vegetarian, especially the cow being holy. Muslims view cows holy too… as a great source of dinner! That’s the real problem. Was England ignorant in their border carving, or so deliciously crafty that we now get to enjoy their choices in spades! You can include the whole Palestine / Israel debacle in the same light… Infact, you could probably lump the entire middle east tragedy to Lawrence of Arabia and his ambiguously gay overlords….
as an aside… There are more muslims in India than any other country in the world… Of course, with 1 billion people, it’s not a hard record to beat.
#8
Did you drag that out of your left or right nostril? India is the country with the second largest population of muslims. Number one is still Indonesia.
#5
Fully agree with you. Back in 2003, Pakistan had way more terrorists on their territory than Iraq.
8
Left nostril, as always. And I didn’t use wikipedia. I used more, uh, shall we say, partisan sources. Go figure, since I’m a non-practicing agnostic.
John:
I understand your concern but you have gone overboard with assumptions. Western TV journalists also seem to do the same in their reports from the subcontinent.
Resentment between Muslims in Pakistan and Indians is not thousands of years old or even a thousand. It started in full earnest only after British came to India i.e. it is only over a hundred years old.
In 1857, “Hindus” and Muslims fought the British together in what is known in India as “First war of Indian Independence” and what the British East India company called the “Sepoy Mutiny.” After 1857, British crown took control of India from the government of the East India company. From then on, British sought to keep “Hindus” and Muslims apart.
link
Prior to this, India was under the rule of Muslim Mughals (or Mongols – Afghan descendarnts of Tammerlane). Before them, India was ruled by Afghans. Although these two sets of rulers were strict Islamists and forcibly converted a large number of Indians to Islam and destroyed a large number of temple, Indian customs, traditions, arts, and culture continued flourish and prosper under them. “Hindus” formed the majority of their army and administration.
For most of its existence, Pakistan has been a banana republic. Their military leaders have sought to demonise India and sought to portray it as enemy #1. Without this, Pakistani generals cannot be in power or keep Pakistan together.
This is the reason for the resentment between India and Pakistan. Nothing else.
Sadly for Pakistan, almost all Pakistani generals, since Independence to the present, have been under the belief that one Pakistani soldier is equal to two or three Indian soldier. They would start wars and then blame India for attacking them. They have lost all wars with India and their eastern wing (East Pakistan) for Bangladesh. Example: Mushraff in his recent book is portraying his country’s loss in the Kargil war as a massive victory.
About the “outstanding analysis”:
Please understand that all published “analyses” of Indian and Pakistani nuclear arsenals are based solely on conjecture, as both countries do not publish information about their nuclear programme because of the strategic/clandestine nature.
Based on the time India had spent on reprocessing of plutonium AND directly enriching uranium, India is expected to have hundreds of nuclear warheads. Pakistan is expected to have 50 to 100.
So, the figure of “about 30 to 35 nuclear warheads” can be taken with a pinch of salt.
An ordinary count of warheads is misleading. This ignore yields. Also, different warheads have different yields.
In 1975, India conducted a controlled nuclear explosion. It was not a warhead. In the late 90s, India tested a few warheads of varying yields. However, these were all TACTICAL warheads – meant to saturate a battlefield or a military facility with nuclear fallout.
Yields from tests may be different from those on the battlefield. During tests, warheads with lower yields are tested for safety reasons. During war, there are no such limitations – bigger the better.
#11, close counts in horse shoes, hand grenades, and religious populations. You were close.
Getting a little more serious, I have to go along with doug in #6. As long as India can blame Pakistan for their own failures, then they have an excuse not to allow elections in Kashmir. Losing Kashmir to Pakistan would definitely cost them Muslims big time.
Hey, if we’re lucky they’ll take out all of those outsourced tech support centers. You know the ones with the operators nobody can understand.
Also India could stand to lose a few million people anyway.
Fusion,
Elections have been conducted in J&K since independnece. It was only in the 80s when terrorism erupted, the central government dismissed the state government and started ruling directly. That direct rule period has ended although terrorism has not. Now, there is an elected government headed by the PDP and Congress coalition.
13:
There are a number of court cases where terrorists have been proved conclusively to have obtained training in Pakistan.
It is not as if the Indian foreign ministry is indulging in anti-Pakistan propaganda.
There is no denying that most of the terrorist activity in India are provoked by the Indian government’s insensitive and hamhanded ways.
You should not forget that terrorists cannot operate out of thin air.
Pakistan has been always ready to support anyone who has a quarrel with India. They have a massive terror infrastructrure in place and that is how terrorists in India are so successful.
The terrorists who were released from jail during the Kandahar Air India jijack drama were from Pakistand and now move freely in Pakistan. One of the terrorists, Mahmood Azhar in particular was also involved in the killing of the WJS journalist Daniel Pearl. For some reason, he is not being investigated on that count either.
Actually, it goes right to the top.
During the Kargil war, All India Radio broadcast the famous Musharaf Tapes. I still remember listening to it and there was no doubt on my mind that it was Musharaff.
Transcripts:
link
(please use embedded links or tinyurl, long strings break the site formatting!)
Musharaf, who was the army chief, was in a Beijing hotel and a general in Pakistan was briefing him. Pakistani troops shot down an Indian helicopter but the Pakistani general says that he got it “claimed it on behalf of the mujahideen.”
The Pakistani military-intelligence hate towards India knows no limits.
In Nepal (as in Bhutan), Indian currency can be used in lieu of the local currency. However, lately, 500-rupee Indian notes are not accepted because the Pakistani ISI has been circulating fake Indian 500 ruppee notes.
Very serious,
Think about a Nuke, and how the effects happen.
PLEASE.
Fine, you want to live Anywhere NEAR where the Nevada test sites are??
How about 200 miles down wind?? And in what direction was the wind blowing??
I live in Idaho, and over 500 miles from this problem and it has taken the Gov 60 years to admit…YES, and nuke cloud went over the state, and probably radiated ALOT of people and land.
Fine, use a nuke..
there are BETTEr SAFER ways to destroy a nation.
1. destroy there food. Know how easy it is to poison or corrupt foods, and if you use 1 type then change, then change again…It causes panic, starvation, and even plague…All the dead humans and animals..
2. restrict there ports. OWN them, sink them, buy up the distribution facilities. Import and export. Make them NOt work, things just dont GET, where they need. Or inflate the prices, of the imports. Own the ships. Or run a prirate group and sink or GIVE us money…
3, subvert from the Inside. Overwhelm or Buy and control the inside. Property, buildings, the News, papers, magizines… Buy up the Utilities, power, Gas, and so on..Then WALK in.
Or walk in with 1000 persons every day, If you can control 1 area, slowly you get 2, 3, 4, 5, then the whole country. You gain Offices or power, parliment, and get control…Take it from there.
4. destroy infrastructure that protects…Dams, and Dikes as such. Its safe and easy, but you May need to rebuild. Nothing fancy, nothing BIG or showy.
REALLY think about this.
Then think of US concerns, doing it to the US citizans. How to make a person pay for the same product more then 1 time.
Cable is paid with adverts. Then they are paid by the corps to broadcast there program, THEn they are paid by the person that wants cable…Hmmm???
The power company Dont OWN the power, they only SELL it, ALl the dams were built by WHOM?? core of engineers, BUILT the dams…YOU paid for them in taxes. The power corp, builds wires to the cities…and tranformers…THATS IT…
Food in this country is rediculous. We feed the crops the water, the soil is dead, so we give the minerals to it that the Grain and vegitables Leach from the soil…Its not proper minerals. MEAT, they replace what THEY consider the amount of Blood loss, with WATER. the amount has gone UP, ALOT in the last 10 years.
Gas and Fuel?? Ever see those dericks in the Gulf, blowing off, Nat gas?? Its a byproduct, they HAVE to get rid of it. Canada supports the US with 60% of ALL the oil it uses…Why do we pay International prices?? Because If we dont, they can ship it to britain, and get 2 times as much. Iteresting that Canada pays about $5 per gallon, and canada sends US/the US 60% of our need…At LESS of a price.
Its an intelligent thought that….
the Gov builds something, but DONT maintain it?? WHY?? WHO is diverting the money for the hiways, dikes, Dams, and so forth??
MV, are you biased in any way? You are defending India pretty deeply while ignoring the excesses.
I don’t think the word “objective” is properly understood in the United States/West, particularly with the media and even with ordinary people. If you are to be objective, you have to report news as it is. If there is only bad news, you still have to report it; not fair-and-balance it. Also, if you are to be objective, you should not shy away from pointing fingers.
This is a problem for Westerners when they deal with India and Pakistan. They feel that if they start pointing fingers they will lose objectivity so they do nothing. Even if they do point fingers, they feel that it is done at both sides!
It is the same case with the Palestine-Israel problem. If you accuse Israel of any wrong, you immediately lose your “objectivity.” If pushed hard, they add a complementary criticism of the Palestinians.
My sympathies are clearly with India because I am an Indian but that does not mean I cannot be objective.
You are right about the excesses and I have not denied that.
But what is wrong is your argument or implication that terrorist organisations in India are operating on their own.
AK-47s don’t fall out of the skies. Someone got to give the training. RDX is not available in drug stores. It cannot also be manufactured by private individuals. The thousands of kilograms of RDX that the Indian customs and other government agencies are confiscating every month has to be provided by some foreign government. Why are so many terrorists and Indian mafiosi treated like guests by the Pakistani government?
In conclusion, I will leave you with a Tamil (the local language here) proverb. Some people have trouble spotting a white cow in broad daylight. So, don’t expect them to find a buffallo in the dark.
Another one: You can wake up someone who is sleeping. You cannot wake up someone who is only pretending to sleep.