Can I have a large order of fries on the side?

Drudge report published a letter where Michael Moore challenges Senator Fred Thompson to a debate. If you haven’t read the
letter
, please do so before watching the video. I just find it funny how the Senator rubs it in with his response to the ‘ambush’ ‘challenge’.



  1. TJGeezer says:

    #25 – thanks for a good set of links. Sad, isn’t it?

    Michael Moore is a gadfly, and I for one am grateful he keeps at it, because he’s making points that need to be made. I lost a lot of faith in his accuracy, though, when I found out his “Roger & Me” movie was based on a lie from the git-go. Seems Roger Smith did talk to Moore, and the whole movie was based on the lie that Smith stayed holed up in his mansion and refused to give an interview. A reliable reporter, Moore is not. A useful gadfly – oh yeah, he is that.

  2. jz says:

    Moore is owned by default any time he opens his mouth for anything other than ramming food in it. He’s propagandist and nothing more.

    Boy, I miss Reagan.

    As someone who voted for Reagan twice, I do too. I voted for a man who stood for true Republican concepts: not only lower taxes but a more sane tax system and smaller government. But more importantly, Reagan believed in the greatness of America,and he knew it resided in its people not its government.

    I find it troubling that the new Republicans thinks it is great that FT has the time to criticize MM for going to Cuba but not to debate him about our current health care system. What are you so busy doing, FT? Going to dinners with Pfizer lobbyists?

    Of course, this is what the new Republican party thinks is great: beating up on anyone who dares criticize the Republican party. So MM is a fat propagandist and Castro sympathizer. The key is getting the power and paying off your buddies not actually doing anything that benefits the country. The new Republican party has spent more money than the Democrats ever did.

    The Reagan I knew was a gentleman. He was the one who did not criticize other Republicans. That was his 11th commandment. While he criticized Bush’s actions in New Hampshire and called the USSR the “evil empire”, I cannot remember him ever criticizing an individual.

    Even in his worst moment, the Iran contra scandal, Reagan may have broken the law, but if so, he did so out of his love for the country and not for selfish reasons.

    I find it troubling that the new Republicans think FT is great. The only thing FT and RR have in common is the acting profession. I cannot imagine RR holding a cigar in hand and threatening a critic with a trip to a mental insitution. This attitude by a government official is an example of the kind of big government power Reagan hated. RR was an American first and Republican second.

    FT and W are the new Republicans. Bush talks tough, never fought in Vietnam, says “bring it on”, and then runs like a baby back to D.C. FT is too scared to debate MM about the Republican track record on health care.

    In summary, RR was a man. FT and W are pussies.

  3. Jägermeister says:

    #37

    Fred Thompson is part of a regime who outsource torture to countries such as Egypt, Syria and Pakistan… This makes him a bigger hypocrite than Michael Moore.

  4. Jägermeister says:

    #39

    With the attention span of Joe Sixpack, I would say 1/10 of the time it takes for him to open a can of beer.

  5. joshua says:

    #38….Thompson isn’t part of anyone regieme. He’s a fictional District Attorney on television.

    Micheal Moore is a lying, phoeny pig’s ass. Fred Thompson is a right wing religious nutjob. Hope their marriage works out.

  6. ECA says:

    41,

    WRONG…He is an Ex-LAWYER, that went into movies…
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Thompson

    Josh, please read..

  7. Jill says:

    You know, I don’t really see how Michael Moore got owned either. If nothing Michael Moore says is accurate, then it should be fairly easy to discredit him. The way to convincingly own him would be to address the points of debate and prove him wrong not just skirt around the issues.

    All Fred Thompson says is that Moore should just shut up, stop criticizing the government because he is damn lucky to live in a country that won’t torture him for his opinions. Cheap! Implying that we should all be so grateful to have a government that affords us the luxury of freedom of speech that we should forfeit the right to criticize and ask questions.

    On second thought, Michael Moore was owned, along with the rest of us. Politicians aren’t accountable to the people. They never really have to answer to the public. You might say people get their voice when it comes time to vote but look at how well that worked out in the last presidential election.

  8. Nicholas Guillen Landrian says:

    http://abcradio.com/article.asp?id=400388&SPID=15663

    The Myth of Cuban Health Care
    By Fred Thompson
    May 2, 2008

    You might have read the stories about filmmaker Michael Moore taking ailing workers from Ground Zero in Manhattan to Cuba for free medical treatments. According to reports, he filmed the trip for a new movie that bashes America for not having government-provided health care.

    Now, I have no expectation that Moore is going to tell the truth about Cuba or health care. I defend his right to do what he does, but Moore’s talent for clever falsehoods has been too well documented. Simply calling his movies documentaries rather than works of fiction, I think, may be the biggest fiction of all.

    While this PR stunt has obviously been successful — here I am talking about it — Moore’s a piker compared to Fidel Castro and his regime. Moore just parrots the story they created — one of the most successful public relations coups in history. This is the story of free, high quality Cuban health care.

    The truth is that Cuban medical care has never recovered from Castro’s takeover — when the country’s health care ranked among the world’s best. He won the support of the Cuban people by promising to replace Batista’s dictatorship with free elections, and to end corruption. Once in power, though, he made himself dictator and instituted Soviet-style Communism. Cubans not only failed to regain their democratic rights, their economy plunged into centrally planned poverty.

    As many as half of Cuba’s doctors fled almost immediately — and defections continue to this day. Castro won’t allow observers in to monitor his nation’s true state, but defectors tell us that many Cubans live with permanent malnutrition and long waits for even basic medical services. Many treatments we take for granted aren’t available at all — except to the Communist elite or foreigners with dollars.

    For them, Castro keeps “show” clinics equipped with the best medicines and technologies available. It was almost certainly one of these that Moore went to, if the stories in the NY Post and The Daily News are true.

    Nothing about this story inspires doubt, though. Elements in Hollywood have been infatuated with the Cuban commander for years. It always leaves me shaking my head when I read about some big-time actor or director going to Cuba and gushing all over Castro. And, regular as rain, they bring up the health care myth when they come home.

    What is it that leads people to value theoretically “free” health care, even when it’s lousy or nonexistent, over a free society that actually delivers health care? You might have to deal with creditors after you go to the emergency ward in America, but no one is denied medical care here. I guarantee even the poorest Americans are getting far better medical services than many Cubans
    .
    According to Forbes magazine, by the way, Castro is now personally worth approximately $900 million. So when he desperately needed medical treatment recently, he could afford to fly a Spanish surgeon, with equipment, on a chartered jet to Cuba. What does that say about free Cuban health care?

    The other thing that irks me about Moore and his cohort in Hollywood is their complete lack of sympathy for fellow artists persecuted for opposing the Castro regime. Pro-democracy activists are routinely threatened and imprisoned, but Castro remains a hero to many here. According to human rights organizations, these prisoners of conscience are often beaten and denied medical treatment, sanitation or even adequate nutrition.

    If Moore wants a subject for a real documentary, I would suggest looking into the life of Cuban painter and award-winning documentarian Nicolás Guillén Landrián. He was denied the right to practice his art for using the Beatles’ song, “The Fool on the Hill,” as background music behind footage of Castro climbing a mountain. Later, he was given plenty of free Cuban health care when he was confined for years in a “mental institution” and given devastating, repeated electroshock “treatments.”

    There are many other artists and activists who have enjoyed similar treatment. I suspect we’ll see movies with sympathetic portrayals of terrorists held in Guantanamo before we ever hear about the torture of true Cuban heroes. Even Andy Garcia’s brilliant fictionalized movie about the real Cuban experience, “The Lost City,” was given the Hollywood silent treatment. My bet, though, is that we’ll hear lots about how Michael Moore showed that Cuba’s socialized medicine is better than ours.

    So go ahead and start working on the Oscar speech, Michael.

  9. Gekkobear says:

    Agreed, FT should have responded to MM’s points one at a time clearly and concisely. Because MM is really worth spending a couple weeks researching and discrediting. It’s not like he has a history of falsifying data, or simply making stuff up to make a point; so he’s a perfectly credible source and justifies a serious level of criticism. He’s also an important person in his own right, who manages a serious following of people who are perfectly willing to rationally accept disagreements to their points and logically discuss any disputes in a polite manner.

    Oh, and neither myself, nor FT actually believe any of the above.

    Would you recommend Hillary get into a debate with Ann Coulter? That’s about the best analogy I can consider… do you think she’d willingly and seriously debate the shrill bomb-thrower of the right; or simply brush off any discussion without giving it more credibility or effort than it deserves?

  10. jz says:

    I finally understand what FT is up to. MM has the movie Sicko coming out in a month, and the Republicans are in full smear mode even though they have not seen the movie yet. MM is a liar, and Castro is a bastard, and the movie is not worth seeing.

    What is interesting is that Sicko was shot before the Walter Reed debacle. While Bush and the Republicans used the you-don’t-support-the-troops accusation to question the patriotism of anyone against the Iraqi war, when it came to providing decent hospital conditions, the Bushies hardly supported the troops.

    So FT is going to following the only course left to Republicans. Their record on health care is beyond abysmal, and they know it. The only way they can win the debate on how little they have done is to switch the issue from health care to MM.

    According to the WHO study linked here, the U.S. ranked #37 in health care and Cuba was #39. Who was #1? France. Bill O’Reilly would be so proud.

    And Pedro, you and FT have gone so far as to call MM a loon. Isn’t the next step throwing him in the loony bin? It amazes me that neither of you even bother to give one example where MM has been wrong. On the big issues like the war in Iraq and the mismanagement of GM, MM has been spot on.

    I will tell you what, Pedro. When the Republicans get us out of this crazy war that has killed tens of thousands and cost billions, when they own up to sacking their handpicked Republican AGs for political purposes, when they denounce and put an end to wiretapping and torture, then you can speak about how the new Republicans do not have the immoral nature to put MM in the loony bin. But I know it an implied threat when I hear it.

    The new Republican creed is to shoot any messenger of bad news. Heck, with Sicko, they aren’t even waiting to get the news.

    When Ollie North was set to testify before Congress, RR called him a hero. When Joe Wilson debunked a false reason to go to war, the new Republicans outted his wife, Valerie Plame. This the prime example of the new Republican creed: Bush first, the Republican party second, and America last.

    I can only hope the 2008 candidates quit talking about RR and start acting like he would.

  11. joshua says:

    #42….ECA…..I know fred was/is a lawyer. I believe he still is. In fact, he was a Watergate lawyer, a Republican who was the one who asked a witness the now famous….*what did the President know and when did he know it** question.
    He’s been an actor , then a Senator and now an actor once again. But, he is not, as Jager meister suggests a member of any *regime*.

    #43…Jill….it wasn’t a *cheap* shot by Thompson…..Since Moore’s whole premise for the debate is about health care and how good it is in Cuba in comparison to this country, the statement by Thompson is in context. He is simply telling Moore that the country run by the man Moore credits with having good health care(very questionable by the way), is also a country that would and has imprisioned in mental institutions and jails, men, who just like Moore have expressed their opinions publically against thier goverment and it’s leader.
    It’s a valid comparison, and if Moore wasn’t such a left winger, is something Moore would realize.

    Too many people in this country like to bitch and moan about how bad we have it……when instead they should take a real, honest look around the world and realize just how good we have it. And if people don’t wake up, we are going to lose what freedoms we have, bit by bit……and it’s not just from the right wing nutjobs, but just as much from the left wing nutjobs. Extreamism from either political spectrum is still extreamism, and usually bodes ill for those of us who are in the middle.

  12. ECA says:

    Josh,
    The last part I agree with.
    Until we are willing to start YELLING at our representitives, congress, mayers, and so forth…And tell them what we want, AS A GROUP…
    Not much is going to be done.
    WE all have computers, and most of those listed have email.

    The problem comes with gathers people together, to do it.
    Our gov needs to Lock down Corp greed, and if they get the idea WE are watching them…They MAY start to straighten up, and do the right things.

  13. Mr. Fusion says:

    #48,
    So JT is legitimate to criticize MM because of one case where a man was confined to a mental health hospital. Shit, in America, we jail those that should receive mental health treatment. In jail, they seldom receive proper medical care and most mentally ill prisoners never get any help at all. Geeze, America even took over a piece of Cuba to set up its very own torture prison where just being there proves you guilty. Whoa, but nope, lets focus on ONE incident that we don’t even know if the guy was sane or not.

    Joshua you always like to come up with this crap. Avoid the issue and throw shit hoping some of it will stick. Only the neo-cons like you and pedro truly believe crap like this.

  14. malren says:

    Fusion, do you even know who Castro IS? He routinely imprisons and tortures dissidents, gays, anyone who doesn’t toe the line. He’s ACTUALLY what you imagine Bush is in your fevered dreams.

    You should be ashamed of your complete ignorance in this discussion.

  15. MikeN says:

    The left knows who Castro is, but because he supports communism, they’ll look the other way, and actually cover up anything negative. As a last resort, they’ll say you can’t make an omelet without breaking some eggs. On the other hand, if you have an anti-communists dictator or democracy, then the same behavior or something less becomes reprehensible, for example Chile with Pinochet.

  16. Larry says:

    Moore should never even be dignified with an answer, but at least Thompson did say just that: ” he has no time”. Since of course he couldn’t just shut up, it was appropriate. I think even liberals are losing patience with that clown, Moore.

    I myself might have said “considering the source, I decline to comment: it might track on the rug”.

  17. rick3262 says:

    Michael Moore and Rosie O’Donnell.
    They deserve each other.

  18. Tom says:

    I thought Actors and Presidents were basically the same thing. American ones anyway. Heres your lines, practice them, learn them like a Mantra, even start to believe them if you want, it will sell it better, make it more believable, more sincere. On the other hand if you got your acting job because of who your daddy is, a failed actor that kept getting the good parts even though no-one wanted to see him on the big screen, because your other acting pals like Kissinger and those other big actors whove mainly starred in the twisted movies about secret phaedophilia rings and dark secret meeting where they decide the fate of the world, a fate that is more terryfying than Nazi Germanys vision, or atleast on a par, for some reason kept getting daddy defeat after defeat the best acting jobs, till one day he and his buddies managed to get him the no1 actors role on top of the hill in the house that really should be painted black for the evil it spawns, or is that the pentagon, or Bilderberg secret govenment meetings flying in the face of international or at least most countrys laws that secret government is not on. Did I say govt. Erm I meant the actors guild studio.
    But what if the the actor who every time he got knocked down embarassingly got a better job, happened to have a kid that was even more unlikeable than daddy. Gawd damn its easy, you teach him to act. hes got the right surname hes halfway there for gods sake. But as time goes on and daddys boy moves up the acctors guild and he eventually gets the top role in the movie business, with a lot of help from his little brother in Florida he whips the rug from under Al, not Pacino but a fine actor none the less. Al doesnt seem to bothered. These actor types they all know the the top role doesnt mean that much. You still have to obey the masters of the crooked table. So a few years pass and daddys boy just cant remember his lines. I mean its a disaster for the worlds top actor if he cant remember his lines right. But what if everything can be bent to suit him. get critics in that will give him rave reviews. Keep those news reporters, erm I mean critics out that might even hint that his perfomances have been crap. Yeah we can do that. Tell you what, sod the whole thing. The guy is just too dumb to remember his names even George, erm Herman. So were gonna have to give him an earpiece and read him his lines. I just wish we could say cut but some of these shows are live, and I could swear sometimes Herman was gonnae ask me to repeat the last line. I mean can you imagine that. Two heavyweight actors Herman and HariKari, going toe to toe, like Deniro and Pacino. You can see the wire up Hermans back in this live show down and for a moment I thought he was going to put his hand on his ear and ask me to repeat that more slowly.
    Now this is a dumb rant, Im smart enough to know that, but is it dumber than the average American. 1 in 3 dont know what year 9/11 happened, for god sake some dont even know the month. If Americans are uneducated you can bet its a deliberate policy. Nothing happens in politics by accident. Politicians are rarely surprised, especially American ones. And when it comes to terrorism and spinning the tables, how the hell did America manage to convince the world that flattening two cities full of CIVILIANS wasnt an act of mass terrorism on a mass scale. Justify it how you want. Your own govt guides 2 planes into the towers and your all waving flags wanting to nuke anyone and everyone. Yous have all been suckered, but thankfully its pretty much only America thats dumb, and thinks no one regards them as major terrorist threat. You better believe they are. TBH the Japs took Hiroshima and Nagasaki pretty well considering babies were fried in their cribs and young kids has their skin melted to the playground slide they happened to be on. Dropping those type of weapons into the hearts of cities of ordinary civilians, at war or not, is mass terrorism of the highest order. Of course years of brainwashing gets you believing the guy with the beard and the rucksack is an evil man, who hates freedom loving countries. Well that counts the USA out as a freedom loving country. The USA is more like a brown shirt Nation where you cant film, freedom of speech is only free if your saying something the whiter than white govt agrees with, or isnt threatened by. I used to look up to America, despite the Hiroshima and Nagasaki thing. But now. Yous make me nautious. It was only your govt at first but your inaction in the mountains of evidence about 9/11 being a stage show of smoke and mirrors, Kansas City shuffle style. And the fact that Ol squinty eyes led you into two wars on bogus evidence and him and all his staff are on TV 3 or 4 times a week bare face lying. Lies worthy of impeachment. America is falling apart, and TBH yous deserve for sitting on your fat behinds and swallowing down everything your told while your govt buries the fundamental laws that built your nation into something that was at one time considered great. My general view of the average American is that even though they are uneducated, they dont even seem to have the ability to put themselves in the other person position. Your leaders admire Satan more than God, if they even believe in God, but hes a vote winner so hey, we play that card to the max, get them Christian votes. But when your country goes down the crapper and a different flag flies over the blackhouse, the Christians will probably be the first to be offed, demonised. Im sure the govt thinks bloody Christians, nearly as radical as those Muslim people. We gotta like em though man, they vote in droves hallelujah!!

  19. Lunar Vatic says:

    #43 says it correctly here… ‘…If nothing Michael Moore says is accurate, then it should be fairly easy to discredit him. The way to convincingly own him would be to address the points of debate and prove him wrong not just skirt around the issues. ‘


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