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Unleashed: Unanswered 9/11 questions
The collapse of New York’s World Trade Centre on September 11, 2001 is arguably one of the most well documented events in human history. Less well documented is the controversy over why the buildings fell as they did.
At the time of writing, 357 architectural and engineering professionals have signed a petition which directly challenges the National Institute of Standards & Training’s official finding that the destruction of these massive buildings was caused solely by structural damage from the impact of jet airliners and the resulting fires.
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Current research indicates that an incendiary (thermite) may have been used to sever the massive box columns of the towers, causing the buildings to plummet to the ground at close to free-fall speed.
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“As no reports have come to light of any steel framed buildings collapsing due to fire, and as all steel framed buildings which had collapsed had done so due to explosive demolition, the logical way to have started the investigation of this surprising event would have been to question whether explosives had been used. This apparently did not occur.
William Rodriguez, an acknowledged hero of 9/11 who single-handedly rescued fifteen people from the North Tower, described a massive explosion in the basement which occurred before the first plane struck, pushing him upwards out of the seat of his chair.
The New York Fire Department’s oral histories project contains 118 witness statements which are strongly consistent with explosive demolition. Incredibly, none of this shocking testimony was included or acknowledged in any official investigation, including the 9/11 Commission.
If the towers were wired with explosives by terrorists prior to the planes, that would imply a lack of security on a massive scale that would be worth hiding. On the other hand, how do you hide that much work to rig buildings like that? If terrorists didn’t do it, why would the towers be rigged with explosives? Leaving aside the wacko’s government conspiracies, are other buildings routinely wired to blow to bring them straight down if something happens to prevent them falling onto other buildings? An interesting ‘protection’ scenario for the neighborhood that would be worth hiding for many reasons.
And then there’s this article from a few months ago with quotes from military experts like this one:
“A lot of these pieces of information, taken together, prove that the official story, the official conspiracy theory of 9/11 is a bunch of hogwash. It’s impossible,” said Lt. Col. Robert Bowman, PhD, U.S. Air Force (ret). With doctoral degrees in Aeronautics and Nuclear Engineering, Col. Bowman served as Director of Advanced Space Programs Development under Presidents Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter.
“There’s a second group of facts having to do with the cover up,” continued Col. Bowman. “Taken together these things prove that high levels of our government don’t want us to know what happened and who’s responsible. Who gained from 9/11? Who covered up crucial information about 9/11? And who put out the patently false stories about 9/11 in the first place? When you take those three things together, I think the case is pretty clear that it’s highly placed individuals in the administration with all roads passing through Dick Cheney.”
To expand on #33 and expand on #14 (and yes, I have both advanced degrees in Engineering and Physics):
Buildings are not uniform masses of material. Tension and weight loads are designed to go certain ways. There is plenty of over capacity, but once you disturb the balance in a major way (say weakened steel due to the fire and the first major case of steel protection blown away by the impact) it is nothing but a deck of cards. And, as a deck of cards, it will go down almost at the free fall.
Another aspect that would have been very hard to replicate by intentional demolition are the two completely different mechanisms (and these can be confirmed from the video): one building lost its central core support and the other fell due to the outer shell collapse (again consistent with where the plains hit and damage they have caused).
We all know it was done by Israel. We have the proof from the Arab media who has it on record that Israel called all of their citizen’s who worked at the Trade Towers not to come into work on 9/11.
The next thing we need to prove is that the money to pay the terrorists to come up with this 9/11 attack was done with an earmark in a Senate Bill that was put in by Hillary Clinton.
This article shows both why Dave isn’t taken seriously and how he disrespects the dead.
The towers collapsed the way they were designed to collapse. I’m open to a theory that the architect in charge of the WTC designed too-effective of a collapse system, and that the design shouldn’t have been implemented. However, to ignore all of this is to ignore reality: The plan to take down the building by the use of explosives worked as designed: It’s just that a terrorist got lucky and unknowingly took advantage of it.
Thread over.
>>I guess getting away with Iraq, Saddam, Yellow
>>cakes, renditions, torture, spying, Halliburton,
>>Enron etc… is just plain incompetence right?
Did they “get away” with that? They may have been able to squirrel away the blood-money, but I’d say they’ve been pretty much busted on all counts. It’s only the dyed-in-the-wool simpletons who refuse to take off their blinders and see what these cockroaches have done to America who are the problem.
NONSENSE. Check out Popular Mechanics COMPLETE DEBUNKING of the 9-11 conspiracy theories.
http://tinyurl.com/nsvar
“To investigate 16 of the most prevalent claims made by conspiracy theorists, POPULAR MECHANICS assembled a team of nine researchers and reporters who, together with PM editors, consulted more than 70 professionals in fields that form the core content of this magazine, including aviation, engineering and the military.
In the end, we were able to debunk each of these assertions with hard evidence and a healthy dose of common sense. We learned that a few theories are based on something as innocent as a reporting error on that chaotic day. Others are the byproducts of cynical imaginations that aim to inject suspicion and animosity into public debate. Only by confronting such poisonous claims with irrefutable facts can we understand what really happened on a day that is forever seared into world history.”
[Please use TinyUrl.com for overly long URLs. – ed.]
No. 1, 21. Your description is on the mark. The heat from the fires from aviation fuel on several floors dramatically reduced the strength of the steel beams. The beams collapsed under the weight of the floors above.
Av gas cannot burn steel, but heat can reduce its strength to enable a collapse.
Lastly, despite some of the scenarios being wild, we have to keep open minds. Many good people lost their lives. Families were shattered forever.
Most of you are forgetting the secret constitutional check and balance: government incompetence.
#14 Some Complete and Utter Moron asked: “Are you a Physicist or a Structural Engineer?”
The answer is no, but I know people who are Structural Engineers and have researched the issue.
First off – Steven Jones is not a Structual Engineer. He was a physicist who studied muon-catalyzed fusion (cold fusion). In 2006, due to his controversial beliefs surrounding on the collapse of the World Trade Center, he was relieved of his teaching duties from Brigham Young University.
If you want some cutting edge analysis, take a look at scientific research “Debunking the 9/11 Myths: Special Report”. Experts from many field of construction, structual engineering, and associated area of expertise clearly and considely refuted the truthers’ conspiracy hopes.
http://tinyurl.com/nsvar
There doesn’t appear to be any change in the facts to me.
The same people behind this are the same people that have been touting the conspiracy theory all along.
Screw all that.
If you look very closely at the airplanes, you’ll see they’re too shiny to be REAL airplanes. Clearly, they’re mockups built by aliens, who loaded them powerful explosives set to detonate on impact. Their goal was to descend Earth into chaos so they could stage an invasion without any serious, organized resistance.
#36 DanB said- “Bet you don’t know that 10.000 people were involved in Manhattan project. But hey, the public only first heard about atomic bombs when the first bomb blew up…”
Correct, add to that the Stealth bomber was kept secret for some 15 years, its now being mothballed, of course we have nothing to take its place do we….secrets can and will be kept…..
“Military operations use compartmentalization, state secrets and court marshalling to reduce leaks. That’s why we mostly have no idea what the CIA/NSA/Military are up to most of the time.”
And murder….is the most effective.
Someone brought up PNAC, interesting, we should also wonder about the Pentagon, the lack of one valid video showing a plane going into the building. Of course the Pentagon wouldnt be covered by surveillance cameras would they.
Good post, Uncle Dave, lots of good comments. This issue should be investigated properly, and not blown off as half cocked theories. The 911 Commision whitewash never once mentioned building seven….what the fuck kind of investigation doesnt even mention a third incident of a 53 story building falling like the others?
Like most have said, this shit just doesnt add up.
Why do people so passionately want these nutcase conspiracy theories to be true? What makes people ignore thousands of respected, knowledgeable engineers and physicists in favor of a very small group of lunatics with questionable (at best) credentials? Maybe believing this nonsense helps sustain their belief that our government is in control of everything – and an evil, corrupt cadre of government officials is better than the likely truth, a good-intentioned but inept government? I guess I’ll never understand it, but one thing’s for sure – angry, hate-filled half-wits who purport this nonsense are absolutely immune to facts and logic.
I propose a new standard for evaluating someone’s mental health.
It used to be that believing in UFO’s was a good measure of the size of someone’s tin hat.
Now it is believing in WTC Conspiracy Theories.
The Flying Spagetti Monster is more believable than these conspiracy theories.
I have now determined that DU has it’s share of loonies.
Did I say “it’s share of loonies”?
My mistake, I should have said: “FAR MORE than it’s share of loonies!”.
This blog is more like “Coast to Coast with George Noory”.
# 48 pedro
“44 you’ve never got facts. In any thread you’ve been into”
I know because people like you are always spewing nonsense.
#34, Jim D,
NORAD, which stood watch for 50 years against the Soviets, was STOOD DOWN ON 9/11 – Coincidence ???
Not true. NORAD was alive and watching the skies that day. Only they watch OUTSIDE the coastline of North America for what is coming. NORAD does not watch the skies of the continental US.
The planes hitting the buildings destroyed some and blew the insulation off of some other support structures. After continued exposure to higher heat (above 500 F) over a couple of hours, these supports lost their structural integrity. Besides the burning fuel, there was also the furnishings, carpets, and paper. Although they might not have burned with a very high heat, continued burning plus the wind at that altitude contributed sufficient heat to soften the steel supports.
Soon the damaged supports lost their integrity and started to suddenly collapse after reaching their load limit. This small collapse would have put more off balanced weight onto other, weakened supports which in turn would collapse. Since these supports are also carrying much of the weight of the floors above, this will bring down all that weight onto the supports below as a hammer. The chain reaction of the floors dropping has begun.
There is NO evidence that explosives were used. To install explosives would have required crews inside the various offices removing walls, panels, insulation, and running wires. No evidence of this work has ever been reported.
The hammer effect of each floor falling created sever subterranean damage to several buildings in the area and was felt quite a distance away. WTC 7 was damaged first from falling debris plus its foundation was badly damaged. The subway in the area was shut down for a long time because of damage to the walls and flooding that seeped in from the cracked foundation.
The buildings did not fall in a straight fall. Their pile was spread over a large area and caused severe damage to all buildings close by. Several other buildings had to be torn down because of the damage. The central cores did, however, resist the buildings toppling onto their sides.
The Mayor did not quickly remove “evidence”. The site was a crime and rescue scene. Debris was removed to facilitate first recovery of injured people then the bodies. All the debris was searched for evidence as well human remains. While the quality of that search may be questioned, the intent was in standing for the circumstance. When there was that much material to be moved, it is not surprising that some small remains were missed.
And yes, I do have an degree in Mechanical Engineering.
I am so sick of all the people who come on these boards and call truth-seekers lunatics, potheads, tinfoil hat nutjobs, etc… What are you losing by people questioning the NIST report and the popular account of what happened?
How much do you people who think our government couldn,t/woudln’t/shouldn’t do something like this really know about effecting change on a global scale? Don’t you think that if there was a master plan the effectors (plan builders, directors, etc…) would have no qualms about killing a few thousand people to set the plan in motion? Seriously… it amazes me to think people are so naive.
An outrageous lie is more accepted by a miniscule one.
I don’t know what happened but I want the truth. If there are people out there who are willing to sacrifice some time to get logical, scientifically proven evidence for what happened then let’s hear them out at least. Why defame them and call them morons? Let them speak, they may know more than the general populace.
It’s certainly plausible that this was all part of a master plan. PLAUSIBLE…. investigate to find out!
If you come up with nothing then you can let it go and drop it. Why are people so insistent that Bush and his cronies couldn’t possibly have anything to do with this? I am not saying they did, but it is certainly plausible. Investigate!!
If 9/11 was a conspiracy, then it’s a f*cked-up conspiracy. Instead of 19 terrorists with Saudi passports, wouldn’t it make more sense to give 10 of them Iraqi passports and the other 9 Iranian passports?
DanB
As has already been revealed by another poster, the administration failed both in fooling anyone for very long and keeping their “secrets”. My premise remains: in fiction clandestine operations succeed and everyone is kept quiet. Reality leaks.
Drinking deeply at the fantasy fountain is still swallowing Kool-Aid.
Lest you get a mistaken impression, I do believe elections are rigged, the media can be manipulated and some spouses don’t cheat.
Furthermore Susan, I don’t see ho falling debris and structural damage could have caused WTC 7 to go down in a way characteristic of a controlled demolition. If I remember seeing the high level map WTC five sits between 1/2 and 7. Did 5 or 6 collapse? It was a much smaller and a certainly shorter building that I am sure took damage, but no mention is ever made of it. I looked and found a quick link showing decent pics and the building layout:
http://tinyurl.com/l6sn5
Yeah, I know it is prison planet and thus likely biased, but the pictures speak for themselves.
I mean, 7 should not have been affected in such an extreme way given how far away it was was and how shielded it was from the targeted towers by 5 and 6. Have any other buildings sitting adjacent to WTC 7 been taken down? Verizon and the post office building? No.
[Please use TinyUrl.com for overly long URLs. – ed.]
Kudos. I applaud those that question what comes out of our government. It is you that helps keep a proper balance between the people and the vast power of government authority.
Ignore the mindless sheep that take everything the government says at face value.
#6 Michael said:
“We’ll probably never know the full story being 9/11 but man do I hope there is no grain of truth to the theory that our own government had a hand in it. That thought just makes me lose faith in humanity.”
The main hand the government had in this is just this: Bush’s incredibly stupid “Bring it on!”
Plus, of course, the incredibly stupid foreign policy that has eighty percent of the world hating and fearing the US…
Gawd – Come back when you have a degree in structural engineering. Do you get all your ideas from Popular Mechanics?
Fifty years from now just like Pearl Harbor the truth will come out and the truthers will be shown to be telling the truth(well seeking it anyway).
so nobody saw workers tote around hundreds of pounds of coustic/exposive chemicas and then strap them to the main suport beems of the buildins in question.
that seems reasonable i mean nobody ever went in thear. not ike it was an atraction or something.
>>If 9/11 was a conspiracy, then it’s a
>>f*cked-up conspiracy.
Wouldn’t be the first thing our “fearless” “leader” f*cked up, now would it?
Well I think you have to take either one of two positions.
a) The government was complicit in bringing down the towers, (if W did set this up it would be essentially a Coup de Ta)
b) Arab extremists hijacked two planes and flew them into the twin towers, which then collapsed.
Choose a) you’re a truther
Choose b) you’re a realist
Just becase some people of learned knowledge disagree doesn’t make it false. Just means they have a difference of informed opinion.
Okay, bear with me — two quotes here:
# 21 JPV said, on May 16th, 2008 at 5:31 am
BryanP said
It didn’t burn it. It didn’t melt it. All it had to do was soften the steel a bit. A floor collapses, chain-reaction pancaking ensues.
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For the building to fall at near free-fall speed, that would mean that the entire length of the whole 110 stories, of the buildings steel core had to soften/collapse at once, for it to fall without any resistance.
Sorry, the “pancaking” theory is complete and utter bullshit.
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WRONG!
First, no one said it fell “without any resistance.” Hit an empty aluminum drink can with a five pound sledge hammer and it will offer some resistance, but it will still get crushed anyway.
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(back to the quote:)
Not to mention that the plane that hit the second tower, jettisoned nearly all of it fuel on the outside of the building anyway. If you’ll notice, the smoke from that building was black, indicating an oxygen starved fire.
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What?
Black smoke is your evidence that fuel was “jettisoned”? Have you ever been in an office? Or in a building? Have you seen the amount of junk people keep in these places? Electronics: computers, monitors, telephones, copy machines, vending machines, break room refrigerators; plastic surfaces on desks, cubicle dividers, carpets; painted surfaces: walls, filing cabinets, doors. The list of things that give off toxic black smoke when in the presence of tons of burning jet fuel is huge.
This whole thing is so totally ridiculous that I begin to despair of there ever being intelligent life found on Earth….
Every time I see one of these things I get excited and I’d say to my self OH sweet they found the smoking gun….. Nothing new…. move along.
[Duplicate comment deleted. – ed.]
Uncle Dave, I think you should post a poll asking who believes in the following conspiracy theories.
9/11
JFK
Robert Kennedy
Moon Landing
Holocaust
Income Tax Legality
Aliens at Roswell
The handful of rich guys that control the world.
The New World Order and Mars
FDR knew about Pearl Harbor
The many others I can’t think of right now.
Each person can choose one or more, all or none.
We will find out which theories are the most popular.