In a letter posted online by National Review this week, the Senator’s adviser, Douglas Holtz-Eakin, said Mr. McCain believed that the Constitution gave Mr. Bush the power to authorize the National Security Agency to monitor Americans’ international phone calls and e-mail without warrants, despite a 1978 federal statute that required court oversight of surveillance.
Mr. McCain believes that “neither the administration nor the telecoms need apologize for actions that most people, except for the A.C.L.U. and trial lawyers, understand were constitutional and appropriate in the wake of the attacks on Sept. 11, 2001…”
Although a spokesman for Mr. McCain, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, denied that the senator’s views on surveillance and executive power had shifted, legal specialists said the letter contrasted with statements Mr. McCain previously made about the limits of presidential power.
In an interview…with The Boston Globe six months ago, Mr. McCain strongly suggested that if he became the next commander in chief, he would consider himself obligated to obey a statute restricting what he did in national security matters.David Golove, a New York University law professor who specializes in executive power issues, said that while the language used by Mr. McCain in his answers six months ago was imprecise, the recent statement by Mr. Holtz-Eakin “seems to contradict precisely what he said earlier.”
Gotta keep the faith with the War-on-Terror-voters.
Those who still have problems sorting out McCain and Bush should take this test. All the way through the McCain vs. The Carrot round.
Ha even Ma Ma Monkey’s face says “get off of me McCain.”
I wasn’t going to vote for the Manchurian candidate any way. Crazy old coot.
Both are flip floppers? Really? Have you seen this:
http://therealmccain.com/
Please post the video of Obama supposedly doing the same thing. Give me the proof if you’re going to say they’re both “just as bad”.
I would say that’s the beauty of picking B.O.: He hasn’t been around long enough to flip flop on many issues.
That being said, people need to get over “flip flopping”. The swift boat deal did more to screw Kerry than the flip flop thing ever did.
>>This is good. It means that both US
>>candiates are flip-floppers.
Hehehehe. Why why not go back to your Breakfast of Champions with Kuzco, son? You know you want to.
I’m spite of all the jabbering from the right wing nuts on Dems “flip-flopping”, we’ve never seen people who could talk out of both sides of their mouth at the same time with the same skill as the recent Repub candidates.
http://tinyurl.com/35nlu3
I’m sure soon, there will be a list just like that one for the McCainosaurus, while Repubs yap on and on about the duplicity of the Dem candidates.
Fucking scumbags.
He’s been flip-flopping for awhile. He was running in Democratic primaries for years now, and more than flip-flopping, he’s a panderer, and has adopted lefty positions that suited his audience then. Now he’s saying that Iran is a threat, and the US will stand by Israel, and he’s backed off his negotiation stance. He’ll probably flip-flop on wiretapping too.
#6 & #7 – Don’t be so angry.
>>I would say that’s the beauty of picking B.O.:
>>He hasn’t been around long enough to flip flop
>>on many issues.
He’s been around for the whole primary season, that’s all it took McCain to flip-flop until his nose bled.
Although if you watch the video link posted by Mr. Flanders, it’s unclear if he’s flip-flopping, or if he’s just a liar. And stupid.
And he seems to have gone to the same Public Speaking School that Dumbya went to, although his pronunciation is a little bit better. Man, Winston Churchill or Jack Kennedy this guy ain’t!!
>>He’s been flip-flopping for awhile.
Well, let’s see some evidence then. Or are you waiting for the 2008 Swift Boat Liars to put together some bullshit charges against Obie like they did to Kerry in ’04?
And one thing I’ll guarantee you on, he will NEVER change his tune on the illegal wiretapping issue. Only a true douche bag would follow Dumbya’s befouled path to that latrine.
I was never going to vote for McCain anyway, but I lost a lot of respoect for him over the wiretapping flip-flop.
Clearly there is still a lot of votes to squeeze out of the fear turnip.
Barak needs to read Maslow’s Theory of Hierarchy one more time.
>>Yeah, Obama has never flip-flopped. Naive!
Examples?
Otherwise, you claim rings just as untrue as the claim that you’re Kuzco’s mother. Or are you saying….??? Hmmmm.
Quote from the article:
“A top adviser to Senator John McCain says Mr. McCain believes that President Bush’s program of wiretapping without warrants was lawful”
What people forget is that anyone can _believe_ anything in this country, but when it comes to matters of law and justice, it’s up to the _courts_and_a_jury_ to decide, not one persons (groups) “belief”.
My two year old “believes” every toy in the house is hers…my seven year old disagrees.
My seven year old “believes” in the Easter Bunny…well informed adults do not.
My president and senators “believe” that they can listen in on every conversation within the borders of my country with impunity…the founding fathers of our country did not.
At this point I have more faith in our founding fathers “great experiment” than in our current leaders actions.
Dan
I don’t know/recall if Obama has flip-flopped but he certainly vacillated over the drivers license issue right along and after Hillary did. That made me doubt him for awhile. Hope he doesn’t do it too much more.
>>he certainly vacillated over the drivers license
>>issue right along and after Hillary did.
Evidence for that “certain” vacillation, Bobster? I’ve never heard Obama say anything other than what he’s been saying all along on that issue (and all the other issues as well).
Obama is like Tom Petty….He Won’t Back Down.
McCain is the “Presumptive Republican LOOSER” !!! It looks like the HAPLESS MCCAIN AND THE REPUKES WILL BE ***SWEPT OUT*** BY THE ENERGIZED YOUTH VOTE, HUNGRY FOR CHANGE !!! Away for STUPID WAR AND REPUKE PROFITEERING ON IT, DOMESTIC NEGLECT, AND PERSISTENT ***FASCISM OF THE “DECIDER”*** !!!
#16–Mustard, no evidence. Just my recollection of the televised “debates.” I think it was actually after the Hillary Debacle and the press asked Obama what his position was and he wasn’t clear at all. Anyone can have an off day.
He has been remarkable so far in not dipping down in the slime to “fight” with his opponents. He might actually bring some “change” to the goverment.
Its facile to note his pledge not to take PAC or Lobbyist money for his campaign. I think it was Lou Dobbs who suggested Obama should pledge that no one in his administration would become a lobbyist for 5 years after serving in the Administration. I won’t hold my breath.
Wow. This thread originated as a McCain flip flopping article and evolved into an Obama flip flopping discussion.
GOP dudes! You guys are masterful !
>>I think it was Lou Dobbs who suggested
Well, Lou Dobbs is an asshole anyway. And do you think his wife is a terrorist? She was arrested in ’03 for carrying a loaded gun through security at the Newark airport. What kind of moron goes through security with a loaded gun?? Like they’re not going to find it?
Obama has never, to the best of my knowledge, flip-flopped on ANY issue.
#21–Mustard==Really? Why? I see him as a real advocate for the working man. Most criticism I have seen of his positions is very inaccurate, the most common one being that he is racist because he wants a secure border against illegal immigration.
Your thoughts?
I think one thing to keep in mind is that many people consider “flip-flopping” to be a bad thing. In very short time frame, a complete U-turn on an important issue may indeed be a problem.
However, over a longer period of time, it may be that someone has learned or changed since the time at which they believed an opposing viewpoint. This sort of learning may be a form of intelligence.
That said, this is not such a case.
Nor is the case of Obama’s about face on coal.
http://tinyurl.com/49edl7
That said, of course, I think Obama is by far the lesser evil. In fact, the man has a lot of really good characteristics about him and may even be among the better mainstream middle of the road candidates.
McCain on the other hand is an extreme right wing neocon nutjob to whom the press is giving a free ride in not calling him on his extremist views, even including wanting to be in Iraq for a hundred freakin’ years!!
Damn, not only would there be no Iraqis left by then, we’d be bankrupt!
>>Really? Why?
Why what? Why do I think he hasn’t flip-flopped? Because I’ve never seen him flip-flop.
>>liquified coal
Scotttie, maybe if I had more time to read that article closely, I would detect the exact nature of the “about face” flip flop. A quick read through, and it just looks like “nuanced” answers to complicated issue. I don’t even know what I think about liquified coal, much less what the next POTUS should be thinking about it.
Jobs – good. Pollution – bad.
Whatever he did or said, it’s NOTHING like the flip-flops of McCain. And Bush could probably take home a gold medal in gymnastics this summer with the flip-flops he’s performed.
Agreement with #23 on his first point. “flip-flopping” can just be what any intelligent person does when presented with facts that run counter to his/her previous understanding of events. One of my primary dislikes of the entire neocon subset is their inability to change a position ever..(or at least until a Democrat takes said position..then it is clearly wrong, and always has been).
#19 bobbo, are you really suggesting that you would be comfortable..or even believe it, if Obama spoke for all of his possible future cabinet members on what they could or could not do in a free society after they left his employ? I suppose you are thinking of contracts in the business world that prevent moving to a competitor and working on similar projects. Interesting. Has any president ever used and form of restricted contract with cabinets members (outside of the non-disclosure of nation secrets) before? Thinking about it now..I like it. No working for a related business that might profit from the restricted insider knowledge of future policy decisions for at least 5 years, or until a change of administration.
#24 – Mr Mustard,
Whatever he did or said, it’s NOTHING like the flip-flops of McCain. And Bush could probably take home a gold medal in gymnastics this summer with the flip-flops he’s performed.
Agreed and agreed. And, still, though we like to justify what “our” candidates do by knocking what “their” candidates do, it is still a flip-flop.
Regarding liquid coal, the issue is not that complex. Burning coal produces 4 times the CO2 of natural gas and twice that of oil for the same units of energy. Liquid coal magnifies the process in two key ways. First, it takes energy to make a liquid fuel from coal thus further increasing CO2 emissions over other fossil fuels. Second, coal mining is horrifically bad for the environment, especially when it involves removing entire mountains, as it often does.
Maybe POTUS doesn’t need to know all of this, but his/her advisers sure as hell do.
http://www.sierraclub.org/coal/liquidcoal/
PDF from NRDC: http://tinyurl.com/4djov9
>>#13 I’m in no way obliged to cover your lack
>>of information (or unwillingness to read),
>>that’s for you to find out.
I guess that means you have no examples, right Pete? HAW! Or are you 8 years old? We used to say “That’s for me to know and you to find out” all the time in elementary school. Kinda gave that up by 5th or 6th grade, though.
I did Google “obama” and “flip-flop”. The first couple of pages had a bunch blogs from worshipers at the altar of Michelle Malkin and Rush Limbaugh.
So.
DO YOU HAVE ANY EXAMPLES, or are you just too busy making tuna fish sandwiches for your little boy Kuzco?
#25–Shinn==writing helps clear the mind, no? I think currently Federal Law requires a one year cooling off period between federal employment and becoming a registered lobbyist.
That time frame is too short and amounts to only a vacation.
#28–Mustard==what kind of fool are you? What do you want–Obama to self publish his flip-flops?
I also googled “Obama Flip-flop” and the first page had many sites reporting the same facts about a flip-flop on the future status of Jerusalem. So, theres one. Lots of others followed.
As a liberal, I hate seeing anyone denying the simple truth and even becoming a spinmeister over it. Biased sites are exactly where you dig up the bad info. That is not grounds to ignore them but rather simply to factor it into your analysis.
Mustard, you can seperate fact from fantas—-ok, nevermind.
ZOMG!! I just realized I flip-flopped in the space of one paragraph!! There go my long held plans to run for public office. Shit.
I gave examples.
He also earlier said immigration was OK even though ti takes away jobs from blacks, but now denies it takes jobs away.
If only McCain weren’t in favor of amnesty as well. I’d love to see how liberals still upset about the Swift Boaters would react if McCain went after the black vote calling Obama a race traitor.
>>I gave examples.
Did not. You gibbered on for a moment about Iran, but you never gave an example of a single flip-flop.
As to the Swift Boat Liars, are you hoping that McCain slides down in that befouled septic tank?
Man!
You must really hate the Beaners, if McCain’s fair approach to immigration causes you to want to shoot your candidate in the foot like that!
I don’t think a politician who changes their mind on an issue (presumably after re-considering the issue, or perhaps considering new or changed facts) should be called a “flip-flopper”.
It’s inevitable that a politician with a career as along as McCain’s will change their mind about issues.
To me, a flip-flopper is anyone who says one thing to pander to one group, then says the opposite to pander to another group. Or one who simply chooses their position based on the current polls.
And, by that definition, McCain, Obama and Clinton (both of them) are raving flip-floppers.