Bloomberg.com: Worldwide — The public in general will see this as another Wall Street fiasco, but the street sees it differently. This guy was a god and apparently the father of “modern Wall Street.” Perhaps that’s the problem with Modern Wall Street.
Let’s just say that finding out that this guy was crooked would be like finding out that Mother Teresa was a hooker. It’s that bad.
Bernard Madoff confessed to employees this week that his investment advisory business was “a giant Ponzi scheme” that cost clients $50 billion before two FBI agents showed up yesterday morning at his Manhattan apartment.
“We’re here to find out if there’s an innocent explanation,” Agent Theodore Cacioppi told Madoff, who founded Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities LLC and was once chairman of the Nasdaq Stock Market.
“There is no innocent explanation,” Madoff, 70, told the agents, saying he traded and lost money for institutional clients. He said he “paid investors with money that wasn’t there” and expected to go to jail. With that, agents arrested Madoff, according to an FBI complaint.
Advice: Suicide Watch.
For those who ask “where was the SEC”, my understanding the fund he ran was labeled a hedge fund, which the SEC has very little if any oversight authority over. As I understand it, since a hedge fund typically requires such a large chunk of money to buy into ( on the order of $1 million versus as little as $500 in a mutual fund), the investors are considered savvy. The SEC was mainly meant to regulate and oversee the investment industry that interacts with the mainstream investor instead of the really rich.
I don’t know if CNN covered this story, but on CNBC this story and the Detroit 3 bailout took up most if not all of the segments. One factoid I picked up from either CNBC or Bloomberg (which also covered it extensively) is that the auditors that Madoff used on this fund was some tiny no-name outfit.
RE: #5 & #6:
Mother Teresa did indeed have a dark side. – A dark back-side. However, she was plenty pink INside I can tell you. Plus – she looked hot in a thong and had a thing for suffering (if you know what I mean – and I think you do)
#28–pumpkin==I too have a garden and enjoy the hobby.
The fantasy is you recommend your life style to others for their adoption.
The VAST MAJORITY of folks in the USA are and will remain detached from the land.
You and other survivalists have voluntarily left the field of battle. If everyone left the field of battle, then the field of battle would move.
Every individual should find their own response, recommending any given response to others is solipsist.
34 – Bobbo
>>Every individual should find their own
>>response, recommending any given response to
>>others is solipsist
Sounds to me like you’re the solipsist here, Bobster. Telling the great pumpkin that he can only know his mind, not the mind of others, or what might benefit them. Of course, your epistemology (like your logic) may differ from the common man’s, and maybe sopsism means something different to you.
And if you object to him recommending his lifestyle to others for their adoption, why do you spend so much time and energy berating those with spiritual beliefs, calling them idiots, morans, sheeple, “true believers”, dunderheads, and recommending that they adopt your lifestyle of Atheism?
Hmmm?
I’m sure there’s some logic behind that, right?
#35
> And if you object to him recommending
> his lifestyle to others for their
> adoption, why do you spend so much
> time and energy berating those
> with spiritual beliefs
Biting on your “beg the question” statement and if I might be so bold as to posit an answer to your question for bobbo, pumpkin’s life style merely entails living your daily life differently whereas putting aside the unprovable entails learning how to differentiate truth from fantasy. The later being a skill that will help you regardless of how you choose to live your daily life even if in a rural setting.
Logic and spirituality are mutually exclusive.
#35–Mustard, you got it as usual about half right. Find a single post where I tell anyone what to think. Now, I don’t want to mimic Paddy-O here in rejecting anything that is clearly indicated by what I do post.
Still==most of most religions is idiotic and ridicule in an honest discussion is impossible to avoid. YES, atheism (not agnosticism) is one appropriate response, but so is mysticism/spirituality of a very general non-directive nature, or a general love of mankind, or freedom, or inquiry, or mother earth.
Lots of alternatives to stupid traditional religisosity beside atheism.
Open up your mind Mustard. ((in fairness, if I have ever told someone what to think except by implication, please find that post to be in error of what I meant to say. An error in haste.))
Merry X-mas Mister Mustard and thank you for the invitation to make my own, and your, position more expressly clear.
Ho, Ho, Ho!!!!
Think about it… The whole banking system is a variation of a ponzi scheme. We give the bank our money to hold and the give it out to someone else and say they expect a return so we can get our money back with interest. It’s all based on TRUST.
Where do we go from here?
Idiots like this are why some people still think Communism is a viable governmental option.
#6–Thomas, you say: “Logic and spirituality are mutually exclusive.” /// I think that overstates the distinction?
We live in a meaningless universe yet man (aka many individuals if not most of them/us) by his nature seeks the comfort of meaning. “Logically” it makes sense to me for each person to find their own comfort zone taking into view as many “facts” as possible.
I would not lump religion into spirituality. Religion is a hodgpodge of self contradicting gibberish that is disprovable or nonsensical on its face. Not so spirituality of the sort that simple says to “revere” or “think/honor” something for YOURSELF, leaving other people alone and not positing whatever you get from the spirituality as having meaning beyond your own individual comfort zone.
I enjoy reading books. Could almost make a religion of it, make it a spiritual quest in intimate contact with past minds all better than my own. I find comfort in that. I recommend it to any who have an interest in reading. No interest? Grow pumpkins.
#36 – Thomas
Au contraire. Logic and spirituality are complementary.
“Advice: Suicide Watch.”
Why? Has he stopped giggling yet?
#39 – Bobbo
>>Religion is a hodgpodge of self
>>contradicting gibberish that is disprovable
>>or nonsensical on its face.
It’s definitional, as the Loquacious Lexicographer of All Things Logical is wont to say. If you want to define “religion” as being restricted to Ted Haggard, Jimmy Swaggart, or Jim & Tammy Faye, then yeah.
There’s more to it than that, but in your blind hatred of anything that smacks of “G-d”, you refuse to acknowledge it, to your detriment.
>>I find comfort in that. I recommend it to
>>any who have an interest in reading. No
>>interest? Grow pumpkins.
Ah, but those who have an interest in further understanding their G-d, on the other hand, they are idiots, morans, sheeple, “true believers”, and dunderheads, and you try your darndest to disabuse them of their pathological fantasies.
Right?
That’s the difference between you and me, Bobbolina (one of the many); I don’t give a flying fuck WHAT you believe, I only object to your nonstop criticism of my audacity not to believe what you believe, and stop believing what I already belive. You, on the other hand, are offended by the very fact of my belief.
Advice: Suicide Watch.
This is the ilk of American/capitalist that makes you think that suicide bomber might be a noble profession.
#42–Mustard!!! STOP the projection. Not everybody thinks in the same black/white polar way you do.
What do YOU (yes, you Mr Mustard) call a god that is supposed to be all merciful but then puts people in hell for an eternity for not accepting Jeebesus? Now, you can be vengeful and do that. You can maybe be all knowing, but you can’t be all merciful.
You can’t be the creator of all things in the universe knowing “everything” before its created, and then somehow palm off responsibility for the devil and sin onto “man.”
See how religion doesn’t make any sense? You don’t see those inconsistencies in spirituality. And my pointing out the gibberish in your religion doesn’t directly say I think you should change, close, but just shy of the mark.
Now, calling the above “blind hatred” is why I do dislike religion. You pin heads just can’t stand contradiction. You want everyone to line up with your stupid beliefs just as you have done. Sheep like crowds, hate the loner.
Poor Mistard Mustard and his flock of retards. The truth, like the universe, does not neatly divide up into “Either believe everything I do in exactly the same way OR you are the devil.” You, your god, and the other religious idiots are simply wrong.
Relax, learn, try again next X-mas.
#45 Please, have some respect. Is not Jeebesus, is Jebus..
Thanks you, Pedro. Bobo was bothering me with that.
#44 – Bobbolina
>>What do YOU (yes, you Mr Mustard) call blah
>>blah blah blah.
I don’t have a name for it, Bobo, and I have no idea what you’re talking about. How about if we call it “Bobo’s walking, talking nightmare“? Whatever it is, it sounds dreadful.
I hope you can resolve all those conflicts you have regarding God, spirituality, and things you can’t understand.
Your life would be so much more peaceful without this gnawing anger and resentment.
Try it; you may like it.
ROFL.
wow..talk about War Of The 50¢ Words..
#42 Wins the Anti-bobbolina ray gun. ;0
(couldn’t resist)
ok.. back to the topic..
in further digging, i found that NJ DOJ
has way better fraud cases..
while Madoff takes the cake on dollar amounts
these guys get the gold star for initiative and enthusiasm. -imagine all the ones that got away..
*IF YOU think about it*..there may have been wholesale looting of all these *bogus* hedge funds, CDS/CDO’s derivatives and whatnot going on
for years. (since they changed the regs, at least)
-if only because there is good chance the people running the bogus hedge funds etc are most likely NOT to report any thievery as they are thieves themselves.. -makes me wish i was a kid again.. ::sigh::
why don’t we hear about this stuff in the news?
-below is a snippet from DOJ of NJ(newark)
case dealing with a multi-million, multi-national credit theft scam.. Note the banks targeted at the bottom..all the major players and then some..
—
“The four men arrested earlier today part of a multi-national identity theft ring that operates in the UnitedStates, the United Kingdom, Canada, China, Japan, Vietnam, and South Korea, among other places. The defendants and their co-conspirators have acquired identity information of thousands of victims and used that information to conduct numerous fraudulent schemes, including depleting their victims’ home equity line of credit (HELOC) accounts.
….According to the Complaints, the defendants and their co-conspirators compromised confidential customer account information relating to several large and small banks, credit unions, and credit issuers throughout the United States. The larger institutional victims identified in the Complaint included Citibank, JPMorganChase, Wachovia,
Washington Mutual, and Bank of America, among others.
Dozens of smaller banks and credit unions have also been victimized, including the Navy Federal Credit Union, Pentagon Federal Credit Union, U.S. Senate Federal Credit Union, the State Department Federal Credit Union, and at least approximately eleven New Jersey-based financial
institutions.”
-s
doh! -forgot the link to the above case file
Link to 4 page pdf here:
http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/nj/press/press/files/pdffiles/helo1124%20rel.pdf
-s
#47 – ‘dro
>> Just like God & Logic
My gosh! My golly! You’re saying that “God” and “logic” are a tautology? Lordy, lordy!! I must be a more talented evangelist than I had dared hope! ¡Ay bendito!
Or perhaps, you do not know what a tautology is.
You should look it up in the dictionary. I believe that in Kuzco-speak, se llama “una tautología”. Que busques la palabra, y entonces vuelvas. ¿Está bien?
As I understand the christian religion, its subsects, offshoots, and revolutionary strands, Jebus is the vehicle of salvation and Jeebesus is the driver===it says so in the bible.
Soundwash, its disrespectful not to honor all the hard work and links you are providing. I guess everyone already knows, understands, and has concluded that Wallstreet is a gambling house run by the elite to fleece the suckers. No research needed for that.
Still, I’ll take the Jebus and check out a few of those links. Thanks.
Tautology: 1 a: needless repetition of an idea, statement, or word /// yep, that pretty much covers the concept. Funny that god only succeeds if it is a tautology and CONSTANTLY repeated. An endless tautology then if the distinction is needed?
#51–sound==that link is about ordinary fraud. Not hedge fund mismanagement.
If there is money, there is fraud.
Not really news. The notion that people are constantly surprised by the fact that “practically everyone” is a liar and trying to fleece them whether they are religious leaders, politicians, or close family members really says something about the human desire for innocense, which is really, how the fraud is allowed to continue.
The majority of good folks simply just don’t want to believe that a very large percentage of other people are just crooks, and smile at you while they pick your pocket. God lies to your face, why shouldn’t you?
My wife said it best. Investors should be standing outside on the sidewalk, chanting, “Jump, jump, jump!”
This is all so incredibly disgusting.
A result of a failed 8 year Bush/GOP government that has allows the financial institutions run amok without regulation.
What did these Bush hired incompetents think of an unregulated financial system? As heard, this is equivalent to letting 6 year olds in a candy store for a week. What do you expect? They will gorge themselves and then when you open the door they are all throwing up.
Totally disgusted. Solution:
> Bush and team jailed for not protecting the American people from this national security issue.
> Registered Republicans each fined $2,000 per household and voting rights suspended for 20 years for being so fucking stupid.
This Madoff fellow will probably make the Presidential Pardon list. That’s why he choose to go out this year, this month. He’ll only be out of circulation for a few weeks. They’re going to have to rent an island somewhere, for all the crooks that Bush will be pardoning, to go on. Perhaps Manhattan island.
re:#31,
Thanks bettyjoe, That IS what I meant, it’s important to be human and know yourself.
re:#34,
Bobo, You garden is a hobby, mine is more than that as we enjoy the vegetables year round that I grow (without lots of poisons sprayed on ’em). Ditto for the grass fed beef we raise. The word “survivalist” is kinda scary with a “Mad Max” vibe. To your words. “Every individual should find their own response” I would add “, but this is what works for me.”
#56 – Bobbolina
I said: Aren’t “Wall Street” and “scam” a tautology?
‘dro said: </iJust like God & Logic
<b?Bobbolina said: yep, that pretty much covers the concept.
Skeedaddy, and a big Wall Street BOO-yah to you, Bobbolina! Even the Master Logician agrees that God and logic are tautological.
“a tautology is an unnecessary (and usually unintentional) repetition of meaning, using two different words that effectively say the same thing twice (often originally from different languages). It is often regarded as a fault of style and was defined by Fowler as “saying the same thing twice”.“. Inasmuch as “God” is from the Old English and “logic” is fromthe Old French, the two words would seem to fit even that criterion.
Huh. Saying “God and saying “logic” is “saying the same thing twice”.
Who’da thunk even Mista Bobbolina, the Madalyn Murray O’Hair of Pretzel Logic, would come to this considered conclusion?
Zounds.
Hmm. Let me try that again.
56 – Bobbolina
I said: Aren’t “Wall Street” and “scam” a tautology?
‘dro said: Just like God & Logic
Bobbolina said: yep, that pretty much covers the concept.
Skeedaddy, and a big Wall Street BOO-yah to you, Bobbolina! Even the Master Logician agrees that God and logic are tautological. w00t! Atheists pwned!
“a tautology is an unnecessary (and usually unintentional) repetition of meaning, using two different words that effectively say the same thing twice (often originally from different languages). It is often regarded as a fault of style and was defined by Fowler as “saying the same thing twice”.“.
Inasmuch as “God” is from the Old English and “logic” is fromthe Old French, the two words would seem to fit even that criterion.
Huh. Saying “God and saying “logic” is “saying the same thing twice”.
Who’da thunk even Mista Bobbolina, the Madalyn Murray O’Hair of Pretzel Logic, would come to this considered conclusion?
Zounds.
#42
Obviously, I disagree. You must use twisted logic (or illogic) to justify spirituality beyond its placebo effects. That is not to say that for many that placebo effect is without benefit, but it is still fantasy.
#44
As typical, you rear your habit of twisting the meaning of common words like religion to fit your own view of the world. Faith healers, cult leaders, witch doctors and others are all byproducts of choosing to accept ideas that have no tangible evidence to support them.
To a person, no atheist cares what any individual believes. If that were all to the discussion, it would stop there. However, the religious have a habit of imposing their beliefs on others including stamping it on coinage, silly prayers during public hearings and schools, preventing research into stem cells and such. It is when those beliefs affect policy that atheists have an issue.
So did Green’scam…