President Obama gave his health care speech to Congress tonight. Did you see it? If not, read it here. What do you think? Agree or disagree with his assessment of the problems? Agree or disagree with his plan? Which side are you on: free government run health care for all or survival of the wealthiest? Discuss!
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For those stating that Healthcare is outside of the Federal Gov’t scope due to the 10th amendment. I have a very simple question to ask…
“If the Federal Gov’t can’t do it and the states have failed to address it… Who will?”
I’m all for state’s rights. However with that stated the STATES NEED TO STAND UP AND DO THEIR #$%^&Y JOBS. And it is their FAILURE TO DO THEIR JOBS that have envoked the federal gov’t to come in.
So you can continue to whine about “this should be done at the state level”, but frankly I’m tired of waiting for states to decide it is an important issue.
– Ben
Sea Lawyer! Bite your tongue. Have you SEEN government-sponsored housing? Have you EATEN government surplus cheese?
#67–jetfire==so, yes you do understand CONSTITUTIONAL analysis.
Why do you persist in posting as if you have no f*cking clue about it then?
You do a very evil thing posting what you know to be completely defective. You have naive Benji’s believing they have a live issue when all they have is a stupid stick they keep hitting themselves with. Very evil when we don’t even have universal health care coverage. Yes, very evil.
In fact, by ignoring what you know to be the truth, you DISHONOR the CONSTITUTION.
Jetfire==why do you hate America?
#14, Independent of the morality of insurance company decisions I still fail to see how the following will not increase costs: reject people for pre-existing conditions, drop people who get sick, or limit out of pocket expenses. All these mandates to an insurance company will increase my cost as a purchaser of their product.
What will happen if this passes is it will become illegal for insurance companies to drop people. That will raise the price.
To keep the prices down, they will limit what they pay doctors. This will bring the quality of healthcare down.
But that’s ok. At least everyone will be covered. Right? Right?
#21, FTW
#24, OK, so, I suppose you consider Medicare unconstitutional.
Yes.
Public Schools? Highways.
Only if provided by the States and not the Federal Government.
Where does the constitution prohibit social programs, just curious.
The 10th Amendment prohibits it by not authorizing it directly.
#32, unregulated free market has got America into the dire financial situation it is now.
If you consider 330,000 pages of government regulations “unregulated” then you are correct.
#69, A few states have tried it already and it failed. Look at Hawaii’s failed social healthcare system. They shut it down in less than one year because it went bankrupt. Luckily, they didn’t have the power to print more money to keep it afloat.
Now multiply that by 57, er I mean 50, states.
The problem with the healthcare system is the 330,000 pages of federal regulations. It is near impossible to get anything done without violating some regulation. So doctor’s have to hire teams of people whose only purpose is to deal with the government regulations.
And you want to create another agency without fixing that first?
Give me a break, please.
#72–LIEBERTARIAN===perhaps the term provides too much respect. How about just LIAR!!!
Yes, 330,000 pages of regulation–none of them addressing investment banking relations. Those laws were repealed. Bet you were waving the flag of LIEBERTY when those pages of regulation were taken off the books.
LIEBERTARIAN–good for a laugh, if your aim is to be irrelevant.
Moral issue? Probably. I mean, it says something when you’re supposed to be the superpower of the world, and you basically say if you’re diagnosed with cancer or need a heart transplant (and the $400K-600K to pay for it despite being “covered” by your insurance)–you’re going to end up destitute. It’s funny so many people are saying, “it’s fine the way it is.” Have these people ever needed an organ transplant or massive chemotherapy and radiation? Have they seen just what an insurance company does in these cases? Bankruptcy is inevitable for so many of these people, because insurance companies will either 1) fully deny coverage based on whatever they can conjure up, or 2) only provide partial coverage (in which case, the patient is still footed with 10s if not 100s of thousands of dollars to pay.)
This is how it works. If you’re middle class and buy your insurance and some horrible disease befalls you or a member of your family, you quickly and smoothly get shoved down into the poor class. Let’s see if people’s opinions change when this happens to them, assuming there’s no emergency trust fund, tax windfall, or stock boon to pay for their medical expenses. But you know what? Even if there was a way for someone to pay for all of this without going bankrupt, why should they have to when they are paying for coverage from an insurance company? You’re essentially paying for the promise of service you are not receiving unless it’s either cheap or you have a good lawyer.
Re: Free market
In reality, it only exists at the small business level. Once you get into megacorporations that gobble each other up, things change. Sure there’s still competition, but not much–moreso a keeping of the status quo. It’s a corporation’s worst nightmare to start a price war from aggressive competition. That 2% market share just isn’t worth the price cuts or added service they would have to provide. More often than not you end up having a sort of agreement to keep things a certain way at a certain price. Some might call this collusion or an oligarchy. It is unfortunately the way things work in this country and many others.
#74, Healthcare
Irrelevant are the emotions behind the cause. It is not supported in the Constitution.
If people don’t like that, they can form an Amendment Committee and get it changed.
Or they can move to one of the other industrialized nations that have it. I mean, seriously, if the other countries are so much better than us, why the hell aren’t more people emigrating?
Current medical regulations account for 330,000 pages. The problem we are in is because of the federal government. Asking them for more help is the definition of insanity.
After 150 speeches, it’s about time Obama starts giving some specifics on the plan.
How will the government find savings to pay for the plan? Specifically, not vague generalities.
He was talking about CBO numbers, and said he would veto any plan that added to the deficit. So already he is lying.
#76 Obviously, you didn’t hear about the death panel idea. Get with it.
He said there were 30 million Americans without health care. But all the posters on this blog keep saying 47 million. So without passing a bill, Obama has taken 17 million off the rolls.
#79, Wow, that’s about how many are unemployed.
I wonder if there is a connection . . .
#81, You bring up a couple of good points.
Consider this: If Big X is really controlling the government (I firmly believe it is), then why would anybody want to give them control of even more money? You aren’t going to keep them out of the decision making process so why even tempt them?
Note: Healthcare is not a right. You have a right to pursue it, just like you have a right to pursue a home, car, fishing boat, or food, if any of them will make you happy.
In 1916, a minister and outspoken advocate for liberty, William J. H. Boetcker, published a pamphlet entitled The Ten Cannots:
— You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.
— You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
— You cannot help the poor man by destroying the rich.
— You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.
— You cannot build character and courage by taking away man’s initiative and independence.
— You cannot help small men by tearing down big men.
— You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer.
— You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than your income.
— You cannot establish security on borrowed money.
— You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they will not do for themselves.
Fact is, the central government cannot give to anybody what it does not first take from somebody else.
And that includes healthcare.
#85, I feel health care in the US is a right to our citizens who pay taxes like public education and potable water.
Why? I am curious where this idea comes from?
And where does it stop? Houses, cars, guns, Big Screen TVs, where?
If you truly feel that way, then talk to your State. It is not the responsibility of the Federal Government to give you anything. The Federal Government’s job is to protect your Rights from encroachment.
Outstanding address! finally, a kernel of truth was spoken at a Long Legged MacDaddy Fest and in politics at large..
..Which was when the congressman yelled out “You Lie”
-pin a medal on that man!
Priceless!
-s
Wow, I have to congratulate most of the commentators on this page. You really sound like a bunch of professional politicians. Way to go!!!!!!
#85 JC Said,
“That is where one of our biggest expenses in health care come from–unpaid ER expenses.”
You nailed that one. Engine Company 10 in Washington handled more than 6,500 calls last year about 40% medical.
The New York Times
http://tinyurl.com/pz6msk
From the Library of Congress website:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.3200:
SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS.
“Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.”
– – – – –
# 49 pedro:
“Then what threw Iceland into their economic collapse, socialized medicine?”
No, over-investment in the 30x (or more) leveraged derivative products of the U.S.’s de-regulated (repeal of Glass-Steagall, etc., etc., etc.), overheated financial industry. In short, they bought too much debt packaged as assets; they bought their own bubble and, as all bubbles do, it popped, at the same time as or just before ours did.
Of course, the alternative leaves him in a tough position:
“Some say we will cover illegal immigrants. They insist the legislation must include a provision requiring patients to demonstrate they are here legally. (Joe Wilson interrupts to yell, “YOU SPEAK THE TRUTH!”) But I think that is unnecessary; our laws are currently effective enough at ensuring illegal immigrants do not end up collecting benefits they are not entitled to.”
They rejected amendments to tighten verification.
86,
It is easy to try and escalate the issue by calling health care a luxury. Dick.
#92
Some health care IS a luxury. Boob jobs and quite a bit of other plastic surgery comes to mind.
93,
Yes, of course this debate is only about elective medical procedures. At least try and be good at being disingenuous.
#94
If anyone is being disingenuous, it is the people throwing out the statement that “health care is a right.” No, not all health care is a right. Not all health care cost coverage is a right either.
The taxpayers should not be obligated to help pay for the health care costs of someone that willfully chooses a high risk lifestyle for example or wants frivolous elective surgery.
The point here is that the debate in question is actually about three different topics: the providing of health care, health care costs and health care cost coverage.