I’ve seen panic. I traded through panic in the late 90’s, as well as the late and early aughts. Panic isn’t a friend of mine but we sometimes see one another at the same parties. This sell-off is not panic. Not yet anyway, but we’re getting close.
Perhaps Obama should appoint Rick Perry as head of the SEC?
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#25 I have a feeling we will do what I said. People will still get their checks. The checks will be ~worthless. This will be combined with shafting the younger generation, lenders, etc., Of course that means savings will be wiped out.
I’ve been looking at our budget and income for the last few years, trying to make sense out of what our leaders in Washington are thinking.
Here are some interesting numbers, from the White House, itself.
2005, inc $2.2T, spd $2.5T, $ 300B def.
2006, inc $2.4T, spd $2.7T, $ 300B def.
2007, inc $2.6T, spd $2.7T, $ 100B def.
2008, inc $2.5T, spd $3.0T, $ 500B def.
2009, inc $2.1T, spd $3.5T, $1400B def.
2010, inc $2.2T, spd $3.5T, $1300B def.
Why did we spend so much money in 2009 and 2010? Because the government brought in $700B less revenue over a two year period, they decided to spend an additional $1.9T to make up for it? This is way more than just an adjustment in spending to stimulate economic growth. That is some serious increase in spending. A 300% increase is quite staggering.
Here are the next six years. All values are estimated.
2011, inc $2.2T, spd $3.8T, $1600B def.
2012, inc $2.6T, spd $3.7T, $1100B def.
2013, inc $3.0T, spd $3.8T, $1800B def.
2014, inc $3.3T, spd $4.0T, $ 700B def.
2015, inc $3.6T, spd $4.2T, $ 800B def.
2016, inc $3.8T, spd $4.5T, $ 700B def.
For those who understand what inflation is, here are the same numbers in 2011 adjusted numbers.
2005, inc $2.5T, spd $2.9T, $ 400B def.
2006, inc $2.7T, spd $3.0T, $ 300B def.
2007, inc $2.8T, spd $2.9T, $ 100B def.
2008, inc $2.6T, spd $3.1T, $ 500B def.
2009, inc $2.2T, spd $3.7T, $1500B def.
2010, inc $2.3T, spd $3.6T, $1300B def.
2011, inc $2.2T, spd $3.8T, $1600B def.
2012, inc $2.6T, spd $3.7T, $1100B def.
I’m not sure it means anything other than to put things in perspective. For instance, our income for 2012 looks to be the same as it was in 2008, yet the government is spending $600B more.
No (chuckle), we don’t have a spending problem.
Here’s all I can say about what Standard & Poors just pulled. WHERE THE HELL WAS S&P when they gave default mortgage swaps, and the banks that traded them, all triple A ratings?!!! Those bastards LIED, LIED, LIED, about the viability of these investment instruments. Knowing full well they were disasters waiting to happen. And just rubber stamped a AAA rating on them, AIG, Leaman Brothers, and the rest. Rather than risk toppling the House of Cards, until their most prominent investors could get out of harm’s way.
So now, S&P is just putting a knife in the back of the American investor and taxpayer, because a bunch if sore losers in Congress, couldn’t agree on deep enough cuts?! Or is this because of the cuts they promise to make? I’m thinking it could go either way. Especially if Congress decides to REALLY cut military spending (which it will never do). Thus hurting all the Defense Contractors’ bottom line. I’m thinking what S&P doesn’t like is that any US social programs still have funding. They want to see the gap between the middle class and upper class, widened significantly. By pulling the gov. funded rug out from under everyone, who ain’t a millionaire. Of course, everyone in Congress gets to keep THEIR taxpayer funded health care and retirement plans. That’s rock solid. They’ll rob Fort Knox to pay for that, if they must.
But I’m sure S&P would be a whole lot happier if Medicare and Social Security just went away. Just as long as the price of goods and services is NEVER restrained in any way, as it is in places like China. Who happens to have most of the jobs.
Ya know, I can’t help but think it’s no coincidence that the Bilderbergs had their little powwow, this past June. Then, all the crap hit the fan about the US budget.
http://guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/16/bilderberg-2011-tipping-point
#13
Time to put the fucking fire out by getting people back to work which is calling for public spending
Here we go again. Think about it this way. Does government spending always result in economic gain? Clearly you think it would. So, why not tax everyone at 100% if government spending is more efficient and always results in economic gain over the big bad markets?
Second, with what money?! Debt = 100% GDP. We are up to our eyeballs in debt, Bonus: credit is now more expensive so your wild spending spree would be even more expensive. I have a better idea. Why don’t you encourage YOUR State to vote for spending like a drunken sailor and leave the rest of us to be fiscally responsible and we’ll make sure not to bail you out. You cannot spend your way out of a recession.
(2) We have to pay our debt by raising the debt ceiling.
You do realize that we chewed through 60% of the debt ceiling increase the day after it was passed?
The Teabaggers decided this was a good time to play Russian Roulette and combine the debate of paying current bills with future spending.
As opposed to the Democrats that pissed away 1+ T over what we make each year for…what? Fewer letters in our credit rating?
We have a HUGE deficit.
At least you acknowledge part of the problem…
Fix it with both variables (spending and revenue), not one. Cut SS, raise Medicare thresholds, cut defense and raise taxes to what they were under Reagan.
Um. Taxes are about what they were under Reagan. I’m assuming you are referring to Clinton.
I wish Obama would speak to American Sheeple in that plain language and tell Boner to fuck off or he’ll have something to really cry about.
The problem is that no one believes Obama and no believes he has any clue what he is doing. His chance to try the “fireside FDR” strategy has long since sailed away.
#33 Libertylover
One simple fact:
THE REVENUE OF THE US GOVERNMENT IN 2011, AS A PERCENT OF GDP, IS AT THE LOWEST LEVEL SINCE 1950.
You can quote all the figures you want to, but the simple conclusion is that we don’t provide enough revenue for what we expect the government to do. And with the revenue that we provide, there isn’t enough ‘fat’ in the government to make a difference. Yeah, we can cut a few 100 billion… that still leaves us spending more that we provide to pay for it.
Unfunded war… hah… we should be raising taxes to pay for that additional expense… but instead we expect to balance the books by giving tax cuts to the wealthiest… that is the real definition of stupid.
End the war in the middle east. Stop sending money to Africa, the UN, and other bottomless pit “charities”. Get our finances in order, THEN help the rest of the world.
Very interesting article here: http://atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/MH09Dj02.html
The guy says a lot of selling is from liquidation to cover redemptions from hedge funds. US corp earnings are up, balance sheets are better, and so much income now comes from overseas.
I would add, if the dollar collapses US corp overseas revenue is going to be worth more in dollars when it comes home. Once everyone grabs a new pair of pants start looking for good prices on blue chip companies.
#7, #19 Dallas,
You honestly believe in the “Debt Ceiling Reality Show” on the government propaganda Mass Media? Blaming the Tea-Party Republicans for the S&P downgrade or the poor economy is like blaming the guys in the boiler room for sinking the Titanic. Sure you CAN blame them, but who’s steering the damn boat? It’s not the Tea Party at the moment. The title of Republican or Democrat just gives us a team to root for.. and they are both.. mostly terrible.
The Tea-Party is far from perfect I agree.. but they do recognize three important points: We need to have our constitution restored, we need our governmental checks and balances back, and we are being held hostage by a privately owned Federal Reserve bank (the global scam of the century, thanks to Woodrow Wilson). There was a reason that Andrew Jackson kicked the banksters out when the country was still young.. because this always happens eventually.
You also fell into the trap of rationalizing ‘Tea-Party Terrorists’. Really? So I guess that grass roots movements are ‘bad’ and global elitists are ‘good’ then? So the globalist/democrat plan for recovery will work eh? More morphine for the patient will make him well? How many times has Obama told a fib to us in his rhetoric? I lost count.
What about when people that you actually care about get hauled off for being ‘terrorists’ for growing a garden in their front yard, or quoting the constitution, or when grandma joins the Tea-Party because she’s sick of her social security check not being able to buy cat food anymore because of the inflation? Oh and America still tortures people because that’s what the good guys do right? The system is broken.
The security apparatus that has been built up all these years since 9-11 for the so-called Muslim terrorists were actually intended for the American people. The cannons are swinging inland now as intended from the start. There will be only two classes left when it is all said and done.. if the globalists succeed.. the slaves.. and the rich. Don’t worry, the riots will begin very soon in the larger cities as unrest and poverty reaches a boiling point – and it won’t be pretty.
We are slaves to the global banking scam, as is most of the other countries in the world. It’s all about collapsing economies and then reshaping them into a centralized, highly controlled global economic hub. Command and Control is the name of the game. In order to accomplish this, they have to blow out currencies, put on puppet shows to distract the public, and then establish a strong foot hold for a global reserve currency like the SDR. Then it’s over, welcome to the grid.
It also doesn’t help to have people like Greenspan, Bernake, and Timmy Geitner to help burn our dollar to ashes in recent years… or a decade of war.. Or 2 Trillion missing from the Pentagon back in 2001.. Or a top heavy Federal Government that is now 6 times larger than in 2000.. I see plenty of things to ‘cut’ out of the budget honestly.
#22 Bob
#23 deowll
#34 Glenn E.
#35 Thomas
You are right good sirs.
—
Oh, and Rick Perry is a douche. At least Dallas and I can agree on this one if not for different reasons. Perry is a good Bilderberg actor and has many of the flock deceived.
Obama = Carter
One term for each. Losers who drag us down.
Watching the DOWJ monthly graph on my iPhone 4 in New Zealand. Reminds me of something re-entering in ballistic freefall. Approaching terminal velocity. Will the wings tear off before the crew (who all have parachutes) manage to level her out? Where is the crew?!
#39
The TEA party is directly responsible for the downgrade. No other element in the equation has changed recently.
Remember that ratings are relative. We ARE an AAA nation in relation to everywhere else.
Demographics are worse in both Europe and Japan. The USD can be expected to move around a bit, but the Euro could plausibly cease to exist.
The BRIC countries often face big corruption, inflation, pollution, and infrastructure problems. Oh yeah, ha ha like us… but worse.
It looks like S&P made a decision based on stupidity in US politics that will end up helping the leading idiots.
Alfie is out of surgery after his lame Rick Perry homage.
I could not believe the smiling faces in the cage or whatever they call it hitting the hammer down at the end of the day at the new york stock exchange
smiling like they were celebrities
A bunch of morons – not unlike our politicians
Whom do they think we are – or perhaps they know
All of this pork barreling – then its “Sophie’s Choice”
Then when disaster comes – its not me – looking ahead rah rah rah
Corporate Jets Corporate Jets
When Obama and his cronies have the world’s most expensive – and subsidized corporate jets indeed
Americans you should be telling your self centered Republicans as well – the beltway party is over we are coming for you too
don’t think your safe
And pelosi sneering “You will have to pass ( the Obamacare) bill to see whats in it
If that were a time share salesperson you would run away
It’s all a manipulation.
Like the Passion Play, made to make you react.
China market down 1000+ last night.
Ooo aaaaah.
This nation has changed from a nation of MAKERS/builders..
To the BUYER of erroneous goods.
OUR main product for Export, has turned to FOOD.
The government reflects the values of the people, it is a mirrow that we refuse to accept.
Mirror.
You go ECA.
Funniest thing watching one of the biz analyst anchors in Hong Kong, last night.
People forget Bernie Lo went to Baptist colleges in the USA. It took him 2 or 3 tries just to say the S&P500 was down 6.66%.
USA is still “strong”–as said above, especially relative to everyone else. Threads all coming together. Posted the other day about how we can all see clear bubbles growing and we all KNOW they are going to pop, the only question is when. Its a lie said to keep the masses quiet that any bubble is unforeseen. More than unseen: they are created and “ridden” not to mix metaphors.
I don’t know the details, but I see too many seldom heard experts claim that USA has the wealth to negotiate itself out of the troubles we have today: cut expenses, raise revenue. With Military Spending equally the rest of the world combined, that idea has credibility with me although I don’t have the details.
VOTE ALL “NO NEW TAXES” POLITICIANS OUT OF OFFICE.
RIGHT NOW: I’m watching the History Channel and the French Revolution. Parallels there too. While we all know the rough outlines of this world changing event, here is a factoid I find fascinating: prior to the storming of the Bastille to get gun powder to load muskets, the people were being highly taxed to support the King WHILE THE RICH WERE NOT TAXED AT ALL. That seems to have been noticed by the 97% of “the people” comprising the third estate while Aristocrats and Clergy made up the first two estates. ((Everyone recalls the Fourth Estate right?)) This seems exaggerated but it was said that the cost of a loaf of bread rose to a months earnings for those that had a living. Thats does seem a bit high but cause enough for a revolution if 12 miles away in Versailles they are eating Lark’s Tongue?
Is Wealth Disparity only a question of relative difference or does revolution arise only by absolutes? IE–the difference between a a 65 inch flat screen in every room vs only a 32 inch in the living room will not cause a revolution BUT losing Medicare and Soc Sec will?
How short sighted can the rich, and their lackeys, be? Taking everything leaving an absolute poverty certainly should not be the goal of the Puke Party===yet that very goal appears to be sought.
Do we learn from history? ….. No.
#33 I won’t argue with the numbers because they are factual so good job.
The problem with your conclusion of “..wow, give deficit grows and still growin…what’s wrong with those clowns..” is as follows:
+ There is a recession. In fact a collapse of the housing and financial markets. This caused a severe revenue downturn a need to rescue the financial institutions to avoid a DEPRESSION. I hope this part makes sense to you. No?
+ The growing gap is the government HAS tried to restart the economy – through spending! Yes, it’s a proven way. This time, instead of WWI or WWII, nobody wanted WWIII because we are already in WWIII with the evil towel heads.
+ The extra spending you’re complaining about comes from a stimulus package (which you conveniently left out that included 40% was in tax cuts for the middle class)… but never mind that because it takes away from your rhetoric.
So you see, the problem is multifaceted and the government is a KEY solution (like it has been in the past) to get out out of the tailspin LACK OF JOBS.
The problem is spending , YES YES YES YES, but also the problem is LACK OF JOBS LACK OF JOBS LACK OF JOBS and need to increase REVENUE REVENUE REVENUE .
Did I mention LACK OF JOBS? YES, LACK OF JOBS. The 5% of the wealthy that own 95% of the wealth is UNABLE UNABLE UNABLE to buy shit to create jobs. UNABLE UNABLE. You need a PUBLIC PUBLIC PUBLIC spending program to do that. Just like WAR WAR WAR is a public spending program.
Honestly dude, stop with the WWI and WWII spending bullcrap. The only reason we benefited was because we were the only industrialized country left untouched after the wars. Most countries had no where else to go to get anything made but us. As the rest of the world finally caught back up, we lose power due to the increased competition. Funny how that works, huh?
Gov spending doesn’t stimulate anything but government jobs. Why? It’s a shell game. The government doesn’t produce anything. The money it “spends” has to either be taken out of the economy, or has to be borrowed, heavily inflating our currency.
So either you basically move money around and act like its helping somehow, or you make our money worth less.
Learn history and economics and stop listening to the talking heads for a minute.
666 is the number of the beast.
Derek: you are an idiot. Your model for effective government is moronically to cast it as a business. Government is not a business. Yes, we can now both play word games but one is not the other, each to its appropriate role. To use the language/precepts of one to explain the other is worse than unhelpful and wrong: its deceptive and injurious.
Evolution is a fact. Flat earth thinking is not a worthy alternative theory.
Keynesian economics is how economies work. Our own current failure to thrive is a good example of Keynes IN OPERATION.
Stupid Human.
#39 Dexton7. I think your are trainable so I’ll reply to your post 🙂 The rest have their head hopelessly inserted in their ass.
..Blaming the Tea-Party Republicans for the S&P downgrade or the poor economy … but who’s steering the damn boat? It’s not the Tea Party..
Terrible and weak statement. The rookie teabagger congress is wagging the GOP and Boner. Are you denying that? Really, are you sticking by that comment that the failure in Congress is everyone but the Teabagger rookies?
Tea-Party is far from perfect I agree.. but they do recognize three important points: We need to have our constitution restored, we need our governmental checks and balances back, and we are being held hostage by a privately owned Federal Reserve bank (the global scam of the century, thanks to Woodrow Wilson). There was a reason that Andrew Jackson kicked the banksters out when the country was still young.. because this always happens eventually.
I will give you that. Most are honestly that. There. Now hear me out on your two points aside from your Teabagger ass licking.
(1) THE HOUSE IS ON FIRE. Before the Teabaggers paint the walls a new color and put in new furniture, we have to put the fire out. JOBS.
(2) Nice historical Andrew Jackson analysis but the economics are slightly different now, …umm, make that HUGELY FUCKING INSANELY DIFFERENT. Spare me from describing how different things are now vs Andrew Wilson. Please.
..So I guess that grass roots movements are ‘bad’ and global elitists are ‘good’ then?
No. I didn’t say that and you fall into the silly camp of composing a statement and then defending it as it the premise is valid. How Teapublican of you to do that.
…people..get hauled off for being for growing a garden in their front yard, or quoting the constitution, or when grandma joins the Tea-Party because she’s sick of her social security check not being able to buy cat food anymore because of the inflation?… The system is broken.
Alot of disjointed stuff there but if town code book says no growing shit in your front yard, then well, it’s a bad law thing not an enforcement issue. No?
Grandma sick of buying cat food? So you ARE an Obama supporter? You want to manage SS expenses appropriately too?
..security apparatus that has been built up all these years since 9-11 for the so-called Muslim terrorists were actually intended for the American people.
I know what the TSA is intended for, it just sucks. However, I do like how you support Government sponsored jobs program like the TSA and military. Are you SURE you’re a Teabagger?
#56 Good lord , Derek.
Gov spending doesn’t stimulate anything but government jobs.
Are you sticking with that stupid comment? You might want Dvorak to erase (pronto) because it will be on the internet for eternity.
I’ll just pick one example because I need to go to the gym and get buff so the straight boys look at me….
THE HIGHWAY SYSTEM IS A GOVERNMENT SPENDING JOBS PROGRAM. ’nuff said.
On the horns of a dilema: Here’s how to spot an idiot not worth taking the time to tutor: “We need to have our constitution restored,” /// meaningless rhetorical tripe almost always negating anything that follows by way of detail. In this case, there was no detail. Dogma is like that. No detail needed, just repeat the dogma. Really, really, …… I mean really==stupid.
Derek==how about some detail? WHAT in the constitution needs to be restored? WHAT?–slavery? prohibition? landed gentry voting? WHAT? I’ll wager my not posting for a week if you can mention one half credible idea that is not fully in play right now. DON’T confuse you not agreeing with current SCt Rulings with it not being fully in play. Wait–I’m so confident you got nothing–make it 1/4th credible. What needs to be restored?
But you did follow with two other unrelated worthy ideas I will affirm just to show the readiness to understand your position: “… we need our governmental checks and balances back,”==yea verily
and we are being held hostage by a privately owned Federal Reserve bank (the global scam of the century, thanks to Woodrow Wilson). /// ok, or something close enough to that==Big Finance. Wallstreet is a scam plain and simple. How much that is the Reserve Bank becomes definitional.
The clear bubble I reference above is close to what BigD is railing against: everyone knows you are going to have governmental and societal collapse if you ship your manufacturing base (JOBS) overseas. Its not a question of whether or not there will be a revolution, the only question is when.
Information societies still rely on a base. Probably that base is food, but that is rapidly followed by manufacturing–aka making stuff.
Its how the world works.
we need our governmental checks and balances back, and we are being held hostage by a privately owned Federal Reserve bank (the global scam of the century, thanks to Woodrow Wilson).
#36, THE REVENUE OF THE US GOVERNMENT IN 2011, AS A PERCENT OF GDP, IS AT THE LOWEST LEVEL SINCE 1950.
I’ve done some research on this after I’ve heard it a few times. Got tired of people claiming that taxes were too low.
Take the TARP out of the GDP figures.
TARP boosted GDP by about 8% on its own. (I’ve seen estimates anywhere from 6.5% to 10% — I just averaged them).
What percentage does revenue come to now?
Further (from the CBO):
Revenues in 2009
Last year, every major category of revenues declined (see Table 1-2). As a result, total revenues plunged by 17 percent, or nearly $420 billion, to $2.1 trillion.
The deep recession that began in December 2007 caused substantial drops in corporate profits and taxable personal income. Consequently, receipts from corporate income taxes fell by 55 percent ($166 billion) in 2009, and receipts from individual income taxes declined by 20 percent ($230 billion).
http://tinyurl.com/42j6b8r
Taxes aren’t too low. Corporate and individual income is too low.
#39, Rick Perry is a douche.
And a liar.
#62–LL==nice link but you totally miss the issue you are supposedly challenging. To direct your attention: what percentage of GDP were taxes in 2007-Now?
LL–what is your end goal? Lowest taxes regardless of consequences OR do you support a society that has a robust social safety net?
Understanding a person’s ultimate goal cuts thru a broad swath of BS.
Let’s see if you can do it?
#42
The TEA party is directly responsible for the downgrade. No other element in the equation has changed recently.
So doubling the deficit in three years isn’t a change in the equation?! Debt hitting 100% of GDP isn’t a factor in your equation?! Sheesh.