When the US is lectured by others on our human rights record, you know we’ve lost our way.

Ecuador’s leftist government thumbed its nose at Washington on Thursday by renouncing U.S. trade benefits and offering to pay for human rights training in America in response to pressure over asylum for former intelligence contractor Edward Snowden.

The angry response threatens a showdown between the two nations over Snowden, and may burnish President Rafael Correa’s credentials to be the continent’s principal challenger of U.S. power after the death of Venezuelan socialist leader Hugo Chavez.

“Ecuador will not accept pressures or threats from anyone, and it does not traffic in its values or allow them to be subjugated to mercantile interests,” government spokesman Fernando Alvarado said at a news conference.

  1. bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

    As Pedro adroitly explains above–mere criticism from other State Actors does not mean the USA has lost its way… merely that there is a discussion/propaganda afoot.

    No–every nation at every time has things in errors, progress to be made. Degrees of hypocrisy aside, no Nation is pure–not ever–even the USA.

    My favorite: declaration of the common humanity of man coming from Slave Owners. We can gloss over this sweetcake, enjoy the irony, or consider all statements a stretch goal.

    Yeah, Verily!

  2. Dallas says:

    I’m not concerned about human rights lectures by leftist governments. The only thing happening in Equador is the land area of the Galápagos Islands

    • Jorge Rhor says:

      Damn. You truly don’t know anything about Ecuador.
      You must feel so proud of yourself.

      • Dallas says:

        The only thing I care to know is it’s some lefty place near the equator across from where big turtles live. The rest I can google and then know more about it then you.

    • The Mick says:

      Coming from a lefty your answers are always puzzling. I don’t believe you have a political philosophy, unless you call “blind worship” a philosophy.

      Face it, if it’s not about being gay, you’re not concerned about human rights at all are you?

      • Dallas says:

        Well, I respond to individual issues.

        It’s clowns like you that like to label people because you like things organized like mommy taught you.

  3. MWD78 says:

    time to send in the economic hitmen.

  4. MikeN says:

    Ecuador and Corrie should remember that Obama got mad at Honduras for exiling its president who Obama liked. Threatened all sorts of punishment unless they let him back in. If Obama gets mad, he might just lock up all those bananas for inspection, and have lots of accidental dropping of bombs from drones in Ecuador. Oops, we said Egypt, my bad!

    • Dallas says:

      Bush invaded Iraq because Saddam called his daddy a pussy. I wrote down that you had celebrated this invasion.

      • Tim says:

        And they had that lovely tile mural of Mr. Prudent in the sidewalk outside the courthouse or bank (I don’t remember which) that one was required by law to spit on upon entering and exiting.

        George Herbert Walker (Stony-Pussy-Opium-Poppy) Bush.

        • jpfitz says:

          please explain your comment about a mural.

          • Tim says:

            In the late ’90s’, I saw a news report with video of a ‘mural’ in tile of George HW Bush out in front of some state building in Bagdad that people had to spit on as they passed over — my googling is not that good, I’ll look. You look to please.

          • Tim says:

            jpfitz, this is what I was thinking of:

            A tile mosaic depicting U.S. President George H.W. Bush with a look of astonishment on his face was installed on the floor of the lobby after the Persian Gulf War. This was intended to force any visitors to walk over his face to enter the hotel (a serious insult in Arab culture). On 17 January 1993, the hotel was damaged in a US missile strike and the attack resulted in civilian casualties.[1] The artist, Layla Al-Attar, who did the mosaic died along with her husband and housekeeper when another stray US missile hit her house. After the invasion in 2003, the mosaic was smashed by U.S. soldiers, who left a portrait of Saddam Hussein behind.[2]



            I would have thought that Dallas, a layer of tile and despiser of Bush, would have immediately recognized that the term I so miserably fumbled around was *mosaic*. And then take pride in supplying us the answer.

            Indeed, I should think he would make quite a lot on the side by telling the clients “for an extra grand, I’ll do a custom self-staining MOSAIC of Bush inside the great white throne.”

        • jpfitz says:

          I googled before asking for clarification. I just binged and found a mural in Northern Ireland that you don’t need to spit on but admire.


          • Tim says:

            Damn! He beat me to it. I’ve always wanted to dig Reagan’s skull up and smoke pot out of it.

      • NewformatSux says:

        Sorry, I lost my notebook that day. What should I have put you down for hen Bill Clinton bombed Saddam the day of his impeachment?

        George Bush Sr invaded Iraq, Bill Clinton kept it up and continued it, and W Jr escalated.

        • Dallas says:

          Nice try but alluding that the two wars with Iraq are related is comical. Shame on you for a doing a poor job at creating a red herring.

          Put me down for applauding Mr Clinton in continuing his foreign policy and executive obligations while the GOP obsessed over the Oval office cock sucking.

  5. Captain Obvious says:

    It’s worth reading The Guantánamo Memoirs of Mohamedou Ould Slahi. It put’s a human face on things.

    I considered the arrival to Cuba a blessing, and so I told my brothers, “Since you guys are not involved in crimes you need to fear nothing. I personally am going to cooperate, since nobody is going to torture me. I don’t want any of you to suffer what I suffered in Jordan.” I wrongly believed that the worst was over, and cared less about the time it would take the Americans to figure out I am not the guy they are looking for. I trusted the American justice system too much, and shared that trust with people from European countries. We all have an idea about how the democratic system works.

  6. Greg Allen says:

    >>When the US is lectured by others on our human rights record, you know we’ve lost our way.

    It makes me dizzy to hear conservatives concerned about what other countries think about America’s human right riecord.

    • The Mick says:

      Hmmm, weren’t you one of those so-called “liberals” who said nothing when Obama signed NDAA and stripped away your civil rights?

    • The Mick says:

      Or were you one of those limp-dick liberals who said you were “disappointed”.

      • Monk says:

        No, for me it was on October 26, 2001. The Patriot act Bush Signed into law, when our rights Started to erode.
        I did not hear you say anything when Bush who signed The Patriot act and “stripped away your civil rights”
        Another provision of the USA PATRIOT Act has caused a great deal of consternation amongst librarians. Section 215 allows the FBI to apply for an order to produce materials that assist in an investigation undertaken to protect against international terrorism or clandestine intelligence activities. Among the “tangible things” that could be targeted, it includes “books, records, papers, documents, and other items”
        Perhaps one of the biggest controversies involved the use of NSLs by the FBI. Because they allow the FBI to search telephone, email, and financial records without a court order, they were criticized by many parties. In November 2005, BusinessWeek reported that the FBI had issued tens of thousands of NSLs and had obtained one million financial, credit, employment, and in some cases, health records from the customers of targeted Las Vegas businesses.
        Limp Dick? well at least I have a Dick..You?

        • The Mick says:

          Another moron who thinks you’re either for Obama or you were for Bush.

          Put your limp dick back in your panties Skippy. You’re irrelevant.

        • deowll says:

          And both parties voted for the bleeping bill. Of course Obama voted against it and said it was immoral and no he enforces it. Yeah right.

  7. JudgeHooker says:

    Funny – isn’t Ecuador’s national currency the good ol US Dollar? Don’t think this will go very far.

    • ± says:

      You must be a D/R voter. There are a few people on this blog smart enuff (non-R/D voters) to understand exactly how much power Ecuador has over events in the USA after 12 years of banking on the dollar. You’re not one of them.

  8. Tim says:

    “On Wednesday, Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman Bob Menendez of New Jersey said that if Ecuador grants asylum, “I will lead the effort to prevent the renewal of Ecuador’s duty-free access under GSP and will also make sure there is no chance for renewal of the Andean Trade Promotion and Drug Eradication Act.”

    “The program, initially meant to help Andean countries aiding in the fight against drugs…”


    Looks like we just lost like a trillion dollars in imposed drug peace.

    • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

      …. or saved a trillion. Most foreign aid programs are barely disguised payments to domestic international arms manufacturers. Very little benefit to the people of the “helped” country outside of the military getting some toys and training.

      Just watch—it will be the defense industry that lobbies Against removing aid.

      • Tim says:

        I whole-heartedly agree there, bobo. And add to the Lockheed types the CIA, DEA, FBI, local cops, the dog-catcher, the carpet-cleaner, and Nancy Regan’s psychic connection, …

        As with most foreign aid, but especially in all things ‘drug war’ related’, this country does not dole out because of the goodness of it’s heart or so that little timmy won’t fuck up his life by inhaling the free and natural cure for ADHD and cancer.

        It was Bush in 1961 put together the so called ‘Single Convention Treaty {against drugs and marijuana} that forbade it world-wide — an edict to be imposed world-wide. This ‘aid’ has always been to continue the lie. It props up the price while protecting the competition. It is a kind of financial ‘force-multiplier.’

        The really twisted part is that it was not about the ‘drug’ marijuana but the fiber ‘hemp’; “…It was top-secret that the single most important factor to national security in 1961 was to maintain our economic dominance and key to that dominance was deemed to be textiles…” — Paraphrased, Senator Ernest Frederick “Fritz” Hollings {D. South Carolina}

        I saw him say that on C-span and wish I could find a clip now.

        • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

          What kind of time warp is your bubble in? Heavy on the **60’s. Nothing wrong with that, good context blah, blah==but is your memory THAT good, or do you google like mad?

          From what you say, I’ll just assume but call it a memory that in the 60’s, the Carolina’s/South still had a garment/rug industry that did rely on textiles. Fritz Hollings straight from Central Castings can not be imagined any other way than standing up for textiles/anti-UnAmerican Hemp/and grits.

          Wrapping yourself in the Flag while receiving special interest funding…… meet the new Boss.

        • jpfitz says:

          Hemp is the enemy of big oil, clear cutting for pulp and on and on. The cheapest form of useful products just from a wild weed. No money for the industry magnets in place since the industrial revolution.

  9. orchidcup says:

    How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don’t think.

    As soon as by one’s own propaganda even a glimpse of right on the other side is admitted, the cause for doubting one’s own right is laid.

    — Adolf Hitler

  10. bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

    The Personality of Snowden is IRRELEVANT.


  11. bobbo, we think with words, and flower with ideas says:

    Dallas surprising me says:
    6/29/2013 at 6:24 am

    Tim – I don’t comprehend your diatribe nor see semblance as to why you support a fugitive criminal charged with espionage and theft. Can you rephrase? /// Dallas–why are you “in line” with the same power structure that is anti-gay, anti-democratic, anti-privacy, anti-women’s right to choose, intrusive, secretive, lying to Congress and the Pulbic…. and so forth?? I find myself a bit in the middle. I don’t praise Snowden, but I don’t condemn him either. The need to follow the law vs the superceding better service to society. Secrecy in the name of National Security vs Openness/Democracy/Transparency. All these issues are not so black and white so as to cause us all to don Team Colors and start fighting? Seems to me a bit more TIME needs to be added to the stew and see how the issues marinate? Why should anyone “suspect” the gubment on issues from A to Z and then think for some reason they have it right on Snowden/National Data Collection/Massive Secret Program that 20 years ago would have been illegal AND MORE CONCERNING—UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

    Thinking People……. should.

    Also, you make an awful profiler because I’m neither a cop not clerk but admire how you went on a limb to be so darn specific !! //That is admirable and I chuckle too. What are the odds that a few casual observations can allow one to devine such detail?……….. Comes from too much tv watching and wanting to get into Lucy Lui’s pants–a situation you cannot be charged with.

    Its good to laugh.

    • Dallas says:

      “..Dallas–why are you “in line” with the same power structure that is anti-gay, anti-democratic, anti-privacy..”

      Well, I respond and react to individual issues because I’m not a party sheep. Snowden is a traitor and fugitive criminal by any measure.

      What little credit I give him for (seemingly) “having a conscience about privacy”, it gets totally overshadowed by what he did in violating his terms for being entrusted with national security information.

      Imagine if we allow ANY military, CIA, NSA worker schmuck to independently select what he/she finds “offensive” and goes public with it. Sorry, that won’t work.

      The “whistle blower” hairball excuse fails the first test – is it illegal?

      Shame on you Bobbo for shaming your good name.

      • Tim says:

        Go for it, kiddos; Join the services and get a nice education. Play with the pretty play-things for awhile, and then leave, bringing out the information to the sworn enemies {especially technical countermeasures to devices and instrumentation} because, by demonstration, those enemies are the american people; A much maligned group of which I happen to be a member.

      • Tim says:

        def Dallas: Aj, squared-away, jarhead gobot that makes very,very bad flawed morality-based decisions when he’s separated from his handlers.

  12. bobbo, the iconoclastic non-conflating non-dogmatic existential Idol defiling cynosure says:

    Respecting Dallas’s humanity, common sense, and care for those oppressed by those interests that be should be considered closely as he says:
    6/30/2013 at 1:43 pm

    “..Dallas–why are you “in line” with the same power structure that is anti-gay, anti-democratic, anti-privacy..”

    Well, I respond and react to individual issues because I’m not a party sheep. Snowden is a traitor and fugitive criminal by any measure. /// Well….not by “any” measure. THAT is the issue afterall that provides him with spotty support and a claim for immunity. Do a thought experiement: imagine there are “no laws” and the gubment does as it is and Snowden did as he did. Where does your MORAL compass point now? I imagine that in a vacuum of law, most people do not want to be tracked, spindled, folded, mutilated and filed? Perhaps my imagination is too broad? But shirley–absent “the law” your opinion of the moral issues will change somewhat? Its that somewhat that needs to be evaluated more carefully.

    What little credit I give him for (seemingly) “having a conscience about privacy”, it gets totally overshadowed by what he did in violating his terms for being entrusted with national security information. /// Again, the law aside and you do have your finger weakly on the somewhat==what did Snowden do except speak the truth? What has the government done but lie and keep secrets? That is a strong starting position to evaluate the equities involved.

    Imagine if we allow ANY military, CIA, NSA worker schmuck to independently select what he/she finds “offensive” and goes public with it. Sorry, that won’t work. /// Ahhhh—well done. Very close to my own conundrum…and the benefit of this forum: answering you clarifies my own thinking: when dealing with Snowden, especially in the context of criminal charges, we are NOT dealing with the systemic issues that are also strongly overlapping and raised. One of the Best Books ever Written: Billy Budd. Must we sacrifice the innocent for the good of society? Short book. Easy reading. Movie very consistent with the book.

    The “whistle blower” hairball excuse fails the first test – is it illegal? /// Well, it is illegal if the secrecy violated the Constitutional right of privacy, due process, and so forth. Further, it is Snowdens blowing that has outted gubment officials lying to We the People and Congress in public testimony. How is that stopped if all those who know the truth are muzzled? But the real balance I think is that once again you are kowtowing to the “legal” definition of whistle blower. Just expand it to those things that the public should know? The most important social changes have always ever come from violating the law. Our own Civil War is a good example of that. What are you going to do when Slavery is legal?

    Shame on you Bobbo for shaming your good name. /// no….still using the small case “b.”

    Context===when we unknowingly and subconsciously choose it, we have given 99% of our answer before thinking about the subject.


  13. Tim says:

    Hear! Hear! Shirley, please.


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