President Obama should give in. Yes, this mess is all the Republicans’ fault. Yes, it’s outrageous that they can hold the government hostage in order to reargue a law that’s been voted on, signed, enacted, and upheld by the Supreme Court. Yes, it’s a terrible precedent. Nevertheless, he should give in.

He should speak to the nation and say, “I cannot in good conscience put you and this country through the traumatic consequences of a default. The Republicans apparently don’t feel that way. They don’t care whether veterans and seniors get the benefits they have earned. They don’t care whether they destroy the full faith and credit of the United States, which has never before defaulted on its debts and made the dollar the world’s safest currency. They don’t care if their irresponsibility drives us into a new recession or worse. They don’t even seem to care if the families of soldiers dying in defense of our freedom in Afghanistan and Iraq get a proper opportunity to grieve and honor them.

“The sad truth is that if you don’t care about any of that, it gives you tremendous power over those who do.



  1. bobbo, the One Great Liberal looking forward to America going Total Socialist says:

    MikeN says:
    10/15/2013 at 3:38 pm

    Bobbo, it’s clear you do not even understand the issues at stake. /// I think I do. The full faith and credit of the USA… is it not?

    The debt ceiling and the budget/CR are two different things. /// Which you completely fubar by combining budget with CR. Quite comical except you are allowed to vote.

    Obama and the Senate Democrats will not accept a balanced budget without ObamaCare either. /// Nor should they. What is it about democracy do you not understand?

    The House has passed a budget without ObamaCare, as well as several separate appropriation bills, those are things that the Hosue and Senate are supposed to pass every year instead of combining things into a continuing resolution. /// Yea…and this means what? Focus your attention on the House Passed but the Senate did not and what you have is an incompetent House appropriation bill.

    I can assure you, a clean debt ceiling increase combined with any budget without ObamaCare would be eagerly approved by the House. /// Thats just stupid. I can assure you that if I want to KILL YOUR STUPID ASS, I will eagerly accept you killing yourself.

    There is no real threat to default except what Obama is saying. /// Just look. Seems you don’t think the TeaParty is as stupid as they are turning out to be.

    The government takes in enough money to pay interest on debt. /// Talking point stupidity. So easily led astray. Even sheep won’t wander off the grass.

    Silly. Mickey==do you vote?

  2. bobbo, the One Great Liberal looking forward to America going Total Socialist says:

    To reply on point with emphasis, Lyin’ Mike says: I can assure you, a clean debt ceiling increase combined with any budget without ObamaCare would be eagerly approved by the House. /// Complete FLERP response. “I SAID: submit a balanced budget.” The missing concept being “balanced.” The whole point of Obamacare is to try and get a handle on the biggest driver of increasing costs: healthcare.

    And while a “big view” vision/context is always my own context, “a balanced budget” actually envisions a 10 year budget as an outline with the yearly budgets being submitted as the recent events/predictions indicate. The FLERP budget is to pretend that the great mass of Americans don’t need, or don’t want, or DON’T DESERVE healthcare. As a burned out useless hulk yourself, which category do you think the Teapubs view yourself? How do YOU view yourself????

    Deal with reality instead of mindless dogma.

    I wonder Mickey if you can even realize just how much koolaide you have drunk? Your own personal circumstances that you feel deeply should be a motivator for you. What do you really want, and what is the best way to achieve it? You vote against social welfare programs and now complain your social welfare needs are not being met.

    WTF did you THINK was going to happen?

    Silly Hoomans.

    • MikeN says:

      Reading comprehension seems to be failing you again.

      However, if you think ObamaCare lowers costs, then you are suffering from delusions as well. I think Jay Carney could tap you as his successor. Baghdad Bobbo.

  3. Mextli says:

    We don’t really need Obamacare in the budget. We have more than enough money to fund the 16.7 people that have managed to enroll. Go git you some!

    https://healthcare.gov/

    • bobbo, the One Great Liberal looking forward to America going Total Socialist says:

      Obamacare includes the concept of covering pre-existing conditions. That website touts that fact. A healthcare system for those that aren’t sick (aka no prior pre-existing conditions) is no healthcare system AT ALL.

      sad how so many Americans think keeping the Big Healthcare Interests alive is what healthcare “for the people” means. Its just the opposite: LETS KILL FOR PROFIT MEDICINE.

      Kinda obvious.

      I would have explored that website more, but I understand if you go too far you are targeted for penalty payments for not signing up. Not signing up is my plan for the next few years.

      Ha, ha.

      • MikeN says:

        I thought you were supporting ObamaCare now. Now you say you are not signing up. Make up your mind.

      • Hmeyers says:

        > Not signing up is my plan for the next few years.

        And you ragged on me 20 times about why I was nonsensical for saying I will pay the penalty instead of buy the insurance???

        • MikeN says:

          Perhaps he is merely following my advice of sending money to the government rather than the insurance companies. Or perhaps he is going to try to avoid the penalty as well.
          By the way, the penalty is not $95 as commonly reported.

        • bobbo, the One Great Liberal looking forward to America going Total Socialist says:

          HMyers—I have been ragging on you for years now. I’m sure I was ragging on you on a tangent of whether or not signing up or taking the penalty. I recall the point that its been announced the gubment in its usual stupidity that it won’t even collect the penalty for the first few years.

          If that point was made to you, then I wouldn’t call that ragging…. would you? Being provided key and necessary information that benefits you personally?

          Rag on. Where can I gets me some rag?

          Ragu. Ragu Sauce. Tomatoes. The Devils Fruit…..and I’ll stop here out of modesty.

          • MikeN says:

            You need to pay closer attention. The Republicans ere trying to avoid collecting the penalty for a few years. However, such a thing was not agreed to, so there is a penalty still on the books, and it will be enforced. Are you still planning to avoid buying health insurance, even though Obama and the liberals have mandated it?

  4. Captain Obvious says:

    The house Republicans aren’t using the threat of debt default to kill Obamacare. They are using Obamacare to default on the debt.

    Defaulting is their real aim.

    • bobbo, the One Great Liberal looking forward to America going Total Socialist says:

      No its not. The Teapublicans think that shit is ice cream much like Loser thinks that having his pants pulled down around his ankles is a sign of admiration. They “think” Obama will cave…. that they can get their way for the philosophy/dogma of it all. When dog talks to you directly, who cares what the 75% of the American voters think or 95% of the American People? === LET THEM EAT CAKE!!

      The “truth” is every reasonable person KNOWS the USA will not default for long on its debts. ….. but. ….
      every rice eating and fish and chips popping Un-American also knows that an excellent way to get another 1% from the USA on its huge foreign debt is to claim uncertainly.

      Just look.

    • bobbo, the One Great Liberal looking forward to America going Total Socialist says:

      otoh===yeah, you could be right. Their assholes are that loose.

      • Captain Obvious says:

        Basically they’re still pissed about Section 4 of the 14th Amendment. Yup, that’s how they think.

    • MikeN says:

      Default is Obama’s aim. His first year in office, he announced a plan to balance the budget, except for interest on the national debt. That’s a curious omission. If you balanced your personal budget except for interest on debts, it means you are declaring bankruptcy and defaulting on your debt.

  5. Hyph3n says:

    If this country defaults, Republicans won’t be able to be elected as dogcatcher.

    Has the Ted Cruz Presidential Campaign been worth it?

    • Mextli says:

      All people see is a free lunch with Obamacare but there is going to be a LOT of stuff like this or worse.

  6. bobbo, the One Great Liberal looking forward to America going Total Socialist says:

    Mike–there is no reason for you to remember my prior postings.

    THE STATUS QUO ANTE OF OUR HEALTHCARE WAS UNAFFORDABLE, AND UNSUPPORTABLE. CHANGE WAS ======MANDATORY======.

    Obama wanted single payer. The pukes wanted the ACA. They voted for the ACA because they know that cost controls have to be figured out. ACA was more about keeping the Big Co’s in business rather than providing healthcare like the rest of the civilized world.

    ACA IS NOT THE ANSWER—but it broke the eggs for the omelet that is to follow. Its a start, a bad start, but a necessary start.

    Hope and Change to follow.

    On the OP–I think the Tea Party have acted just as they should. They got elected to destroy Western Civilization and they did their best. What failed was the Congressional rules of Procedure breaking down to support the anti-constitutional goals of our Two Party System and Congress being occupied by office seekers rather than legislators. ……….Ha, ha==and it is rather obvious why Boner wants to keep the Speakership. It is Power. Power means he get the first skim of any graft floating his way.

    VOTE ALL ENCUMBENTS OUT OF OFFICE.

    ……and it is gerrymandering. And up what is not gerrymandered and its exceptions, and what is gerrymandered and its exceptions, weigh and contrast. Make a judgment: its gerrymandering.

    STOP eating the grass. THINK for yourself.

    Try it.

    • MikeN says:

      Sounds like you are saying ObamaCare=CRAP. So stop trying to defend it, and just be honest. You want it to make things worse.

    • Just Dave says:

      Just a quick correction for bobbo. Not a single Repuke voted for the ACA. However, 34 Democrats voted against it.

  7. deowll says:

    The person that wrote the article is a monument to the kind of brain dead BS you get when somebody swallows a line of propaganda in its entirety.

    If this BD person is aware of how much the interest on the debt is and how much this nation takes in each month he would know that the interest is still only a fraction of net revenues. While re allocation of funds would no doubt be needed there is absolutely no reason to default.

    As for the soldiers survivors being treated badly that seems to be solely due to an interpretation on the part of the justice department of a statute that was meant to cover the issue that had already been passed combined with having a total wuss running the Pentagon. I’m not even sure it wasn’t deliberate as the crap at the veterans monuments was clearly deliberate abuse approved by someone in the WH, not necessarily the POTUS, who I’d hope is neither that stupid or that inhumane.

    As for moaning over people fighting to support the views of the people that elected them. Get over it. Grow up. The current health care law is a gawd awful mess that needs a massive amount of sorting out. The Unions and others are fighting to dump the bill for it on somebody else namely us.

    As anyone who gave a rat’s tail knows the people that voted for it did so sight unseen. Nobody really understands this monstrosity and nobody ever will. It is over 2,000 pages long. Over 20,000 pages of text have been added to it since it was passed. Law suits can be expected for decades even with revisions.

    The sub 30 hr work with is only one of thousands of harmful side effects this jewel of the lawmakers art have created.

    People aren’t going to be able to keep their Dr.

    Most people are clearly going to be paying more often so much more they can’t afford it and then the sign up is going like the mother of all train wrecks with the security at the sites being apparently something that wasn’t even considered. According to what Steve Gibson and others are saying massive security breaches are just a matter of time.

    How this aborted fetus is going to work has yet to be determined. You guys have fun.

  8. Charlotte's Web says:

    Holy crap, Bobbo!

    Looking at all the threads in a 150-PLUS response and nearly every goddamn one has YOU in it!

    Perhaps now is a good time to remember a little modified Shakespeare which has been used by so many of your hero’s; “Me thinks thou dost protest too much.

    So could it be that all your liberal mind-washed mud slinging has blinded you to a rather obvious fact? That all your incessant whining about a MINORITY (power) in Washington just might be an indicator that you’re WRONG?!

    Or is it simply that you don’t you have a JOB or a LIFE?!

    I could go into how humans – even you – are ANIMALS! I might even point out how animals are primarily concerned with their own survival which often looks a lot like greed too. I’d really love to point out how every mammal has a mother with tits! But I won’t bore you with lessons in natural law like that. I’m sure you won’t get the parallels.

    However, I will say that with enough BABIES sucking on the one governmental tit that the tit is about to go dry. Even your own people have said it. Yet, all Obama is doing is trying to suck that tit harder!

    So is there any chance of getting him or his followers to NOT suck as hard? Any chance they will get off that tit which has now dried up to the point of a governmental shutdown? Does the government actually have to dry up completely before you will DO YOUR JOB and NEGOTIATE the FLOW of MILK?!

    Now, don’t any of you libtards (especially the ones in the media) try and take a look or anything. Never mind the fact that it takes two to tango! Keep up with the finger pointing and blame game that you’re so good at. Watch what happens when all you DO is complain and dig your heels in. It’s not like your MOTHER has to eat or is at war trying to get the food to make her milk.

    We’ll try and ignore the fact that fat ass (conceited) tit sucking pigs act like that.

    • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

      Pick one issue.

      • Chris Mac says:

        Is that how it ended?

        • bobbo, we think words, and flower with movie references says:

          Same as it started: no focus, no power, no sense in its conflicted statements.

          Yep.

  9. Greg Allen says:

    >>Yes, it’s a terrible precedent. Nevertheless, he should give in.

    Precedent matters. Especially with the presidency. Once a precedent is established, it can stay for generations.

    Bringing our nation — no, the world — to the brink of economic disaster because they lost on Affordable Heathcare is just not tolerable.

    I’m glad Obama didn’t cave. But, this will not be the end of the GOP dangerous and foolish games.

  10. Captain Obvious says:

    The Senate bill passed easily in the House. Oh gee, what a shock. I wonder if H.RES.368 delayed the vote at all?

  11. LibertyLover says:

    The Republicans just lost all credibility and gained absolutely nothing.

    • Captain Obvious says:

      The Republicans might have lost the Tea Party in all this. Most of them would see that as a win.

      • LibertyLover says:

        I don’t think you truly understand what happened yesterday.

        Congress didn’t give Obama what he wanted, they gave every future President the same power.

        The President, D/R/L/x, the power to automatically increase the debt ceiling without permission of Congress.

        The only way Congress can stop the President from spending us into oblivion is to overrule his veto with 2/3 majority vote.

        You may be happy that Obama got this power, but when we have a Republican President and a Democratic congress, you’re going to regret it.

        Mark your calendars. October 16, 2013 is the day the America you knew died. The people no longer control the purse strings – a single man does.

        • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

          I really admire the way you BOLD your stupidity.

          Congress has the power of the purse. All the Pres can do is admire Congress in the same way that you so much like yourself.

          • Kris Kringle says:

            LL is correct.

            Now here is what may have been changed. Congress yesterday, structured the process so that the debt limit will now increase automatically when the ceiling is reached, with the idea that Congress could still control it by voting to stop the increase. You may say, “Big deal; six of one, half dozen of the other.”

            You may say that there’s not much difference between Congress voting for an increase, or voting to stop an automatic increase, but you would be wrong, and here’s why. As we have just seen, if Congress refuses to grant an increase, there’s nothing the President can do about. Under the new system however, if the increase occurs automatically and Congress votes to stop it, the President can veto their action, and it would require a 2/3’s vote to override him.

            Congress has just ceded more power to the President than what our Constitution allows. Just so in the future they can say, “Hey, don’t blame me, I voted against raising the debt limit.” while still allowing it to happen.”

          • LibertyLover says:

            Lovin’ that worship!

          • bobbo, we think words, and flower with movie references says:

            You raise a different issue.

            Pretty BOLD yourself.

            Prove yourself capable of independent thinking: what should the Supremes sing when thing lyric is placed before them?

        • Captain Obvious says:

          Mark your calendars? Suck it up princess. Why is the right so limp wristed these days? It’s really irritating.

          Obama spanked Boehner. Down bobbo.

          In 2010 Boehner spanked Obama. It’s called politics. It’s the way American politics works. Or doesn’t, depending on your point of view. The founding fathers lovingly referred to it as “checks and balances”.

          The debt limit was raised 78 times since 1960. The Republicans calculated and lost really badly this time. Now they have to regroup before the midterms.

          I don’t particularly like Obama. He voted against raising the debt ceiling when he was a Senator – as a matter of calculating politics. He’s no different. But looking at the Republicans now you just gotta say “wow”. They aren’t exactly putting a great cause before the electorate.

          • LibertyLover says:

            Well, since it’s been raised so many times, I guess it’s the right thing to do.

            And now we don’t have to worry about those pesky politics getting in the way anymore. The debt ceiling will go up whenever the Prez wants it to.

  12. MikeN says:

    In case you are wondering why Dallas has stopped posting. The latest instructions from Obama:

    Now that the government has reopened and this threat to our economy is removed, all of us need to stop focusing on the lobbyists, and the bloggers,…

    • bobbo, we think words, and flower with movie references says:

      Pedro too.

      I assume both have found new relationships and have better things to do?

      (snark on) If it was a minotaur, they could be in a manage a trois relationship.

      The mind reels.

  13. bobbo, we think words, and flower with movie references says:

    Just Dave says:
    10/17/2013 at 6:58 am

    Just a quick correction for bobbo. Not a single Repuke voted for the ACA. However, 34 Democrats voted against it. /// In context you are critiquing my comment to VOTE ALL INCUMBENTS OUT OF OFFICE. If such voting was based on this one and only issue, then you would be correct. But Congress has a record of too many failures, conflict of interest, self dealing, ignoring their constitutional duties in favor of Party Politics and getting themselves elected.

    Sorry. Your opinion is too shortsighted and limited. Juggle more than one ball and:

    VOTE ALL INCUMBENTS OUT OF OFFICE.

  14. Sea Lawyer says:

    Just saw Obama say that if the Republicans want to change things, they should “win and election.”

    He must be having selective member, because after the, then majority, Democrats pushed through the ACA, the electorate responded by giving the Republicans an overwhelming majority in the House, and almost did the same in the Senate. Mr. Obama would do wise to remember that he, alone is not the government.

    • Sea Lawyer says:

      selective memory

      • bobbo, we think words, and flower with movie references says:

        The election was limited to Obama’s compromise on the Healthplan proposed by Republicans 16 years earlier in response to Hillary care huh?

        I’ll selectively remember that.

    • Captain Obvious says:

      Talking about selective memory, you should check the vote counts in 2012. The Democrats won the national vote for President, Senate, and House.

      The “redistricting” of House seats makes it pretty impossible for the Democrats to ever get a majority of seats again but it wasn’t overwhelming Republican victory. The Dems will have to grow some kahonies at the state level if they ever want the House back.

      The actual election itself means nothing in many of these districts – a 70+% win is a banana republic result.
      Ironically, the gerrymandering is now tearing the Republicans apart since the general elections are now meaningless. Now the nasty cut and thrust politics happens during the Republican primaries where it’s R vs TP with the big money is being dump trucked to the TP candidates.

      • bobbo, we think words, and flower with movie references says:

        Yes……. and I don’t think that was obvious at the start of the gerrymandering.

        Sweet irony, if the country can survive.

      • MikeN says:

        All false. The Democrats could take back the House pretty easily. They simply have to perform as well as they did in past elections. Gerrymandering is a new excuse being pushed by various bloggers. reality is it cuts both ways, and the last round was a wash. Look at Illinois, Maryland, and the supposedly non-gerrymandering neutral system in California that was rigged by Democrats, and you see it balances out Republican dirty tricks. Besides that, a strong gerrymander in favor of a party makes it more likely for that party to lose big, as we saw in 2006.

        • MikeN says:

          It’s not just a narrow takeover either. Democrats getting to 240-250 seats is pretty doable for them. The Republicans do not have a safe majority. If this shutdown is as bad for them as people are saying then the House is definitely in play.

          • bobbo, we think words, and flower with movie references says:

            If the Dumbos won the popular vote by millions but got snookered by the Pukes then that would indicate that people are not randomly distributed but rather clump together by political association.

            So… lets look at the map: hmmm, not very random looking to me. Dumbo cities cut into pie shapes to be averaged into non-existence by the Puke countryside.

            Sorry Micky==math and eyeballs do not lie. Lies, Damn Lies, then Mickey.

            Ha, ha.

          • MikeN says:

            Yea, it averages out though with Democrat gerrymanders. Look at the districts in Illinois and Maryland.

            On top of that you have the voting rights act. In Michigan, the Republicans were forced to make those funny looking districts. The blacks had moved out of the liberal run places to less liberal areas. So now Republicans were forced by the Voting Rights Act to redraw those blacks who had moved to neighboring areas right back into the same congressional district. I’m sure they were all torn up about it.

          • bobbo, we think words, and flower with movie references says:

            No–it doesn’t average out.

            Thats the precision of math and a pretty good example of your lyin’ ways. Is it conscious or just inbred?

          • MikeN says:

            Your saying it doesn’t make it so. Take a look at the map.

          • bobbo, we think words, and flower with movie references says:

            Mirror.

  15. MikeN says:

    In other words, in 2008 there were 31 seats that were eight-to-nine points more Republican than the country as a whole, and Democrats won 23 percent of those, netting them seven seats. Under the current lines, using McCain/Obama numbers, there are 30 such seats. If Democrats had won 23 percent of them, rather than the 3 percent they actually won, they would have netted seven seats, instead of the one seat they wound up with.

    If we do this for all the PVI categories, we find Democrats would have won 249 seats, claiming the House easily. That’s fewer than the 257 seats Democrats won under the lines in place in 2008, but that’s not a massive disparity either. In fact, with the distribution that Democrats had in 2008, they would have won the House handily in every year from 1992 through 2012:

    Read more: http://realclearpolitics.com/articles/2013/10/11/gerrymandering_isnt_to_blame_for_dc_impasse_120300.html#ixzz2i5nd63gE

    http://realclearpolitics.com/images/wysiwyg_images/chart5-10-11.gif

    • Captain Obvious says:

      The median congressional district is skewed 5 points to the Republican side as compared to the entire country.

      Sorry bud, you gotta use real math. Not bible math.

      • MikeN says:

        Yes it is. Now maybe if you repeal the voting rights act to stop making majority minority districts you could balance that out. Nevertheless the latest round of redistricting hasn’t done any major benefits for Republicans.

        • Captain Obvious says:

          It’s killing the Republicans, that’s the point. The Dems attentive attention deficit syndrome means they’ll never even it out themselves. The deck is stacked for the next few years:

          President: Democrats
          House: Republicans
          Senate: Whoever is ever willing to wrestle in the mud more

  16. Sam says:

    Actually, not being able to increase borrowing wouldn’t by itself lead to default. This is not rocket science. Someone that cannot get an increase in his credit limit doesn’t mean he now has to declare bankruptcy.

    All the government would have to do, and it could have done, was to cut some of its budget. You know, it would actually have to live within its budget more.

    Can’t have that, can we, sir? We need to fund the Obama military empire. There’s nothing that can be cut.

    Oh, the horrors! It would have been the end of civilization. People would be starving in the streets. The Internet would have shutdown. Etc. Etc.


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