Great… the New York Times reports:
The biologists, led by Svante Paabo of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Leipzig, Germany, have been slowly reconstructing the genome of Neanderthals, the stocky hunters that dominated Europe until 30,000 years ago, by extracting the fragments of DNA that still exist in their fossil bones. Just last year, when the biologists first announced that they had decoded the Neanderthal genome, they reported no significant evidence of interbreeding.
Scientists say they have recovered 60 percent of the genome so far and hope to complete it. By comparing that genome with those of various present day humans, the team concluded that about 1 percent to 4 percent of the genome of non-Africans today is derived from Neanderthals. But the Neanderthal DNA does not seem to have played a great role in human evolution, they said.
Well, Neanderthals WERE Humans…
Also they had, on average, a bigger brain than ours…
Here:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal
But ultimately were our Ba**ls that won. We’re much more aggressive, and may have wiped’em out…
Only 1% to 4%?
They haven’t been to a Philadelphia sporting event lately.
I remember those days. Those guy were really hung, hard to keep the broads away from them. They were tough, two of them could bring down a mammoth. We had to kill them off because they didn’t like our religion.
Human physical requirements for a sexual interlude. . Wet & Warm… Well not always warm.
Goes a long way to explaining James Carville
TruthBeTold, it doesn’t explain Dick Morris though…
>> qb said,
>> TruthBeTold, it doesn’t explain Dick Morris though…
Morris surely has Jabba The Hutt somewhere in his gene pool.
Neanderthals amongst us ? Sure they are today’s REPUKES !!! High Brow, Low Forehead, small brains !!!
It would be interesting to know if those Neanderthal genes have any connection to the fact that people of European and Asian descent have more resistance to some diseases than people of African descent. Hmmm.
Does anyone remember a short science fiction story, maybe by Heinlein or Ellison, about a Neanderthal Man who becomes immortal? He admits to the scientist interviewing him in the present day that he fathered most of the ancestors of the modern day Irish “and that explains that long upper lip and hanging brow”.
“Neanderthals mating with Humans”–lets deconstruct that a bit as I would think it would be the other way around. Humans mating with Neanderthals.
Were the males of both groups the aggressors essentially raping the females, or were the females seducing the males? Probably a bunch of both–or is seduction by females a modern cultural development.
I was taught in school that it was only fairly recent that humans even made the link between sex now and babies 9 months later. What was happening 300K years ago? Looking at other primates, it appears reproduction is directed by the females coming into estrus. You see studies all the time about chemical variances in humans but it all seems rather minimal.
JoaoPT–I didn’t read your link as so definitive in fact it says either/or. Being “human” is purely a cultural definition while science as yet still wrestles with what is a species.
Well. The Neanderthal is defined as Homo Neandertalensis. And as it appears, the gene mixing was not only possible, but probable. This by itself makes the Neanderthals (and us Homo Sapiens) the same specie. Or at least Species close enough to permit successful reproduction (not like Horses and Donkeys, whose descent is sterile.).
This said, there are major morpholigical differences, and one would not mistake a Neanderthal for a Human if met face to face.
The head would be very different. Our skull has a higher forehead and it’s shorter. Neanderthals had a flatter, more elongated head protuberant eyebrow undersctructures. Less flatter face and less pronouced chinbone. The neck would be wider, and general body structure would be stronger.
Not sure what you mean by cultural definition of humanity, but if Neanderthals would be alive today, I’m sure they could integrate our “Human” society.
As your assertion about Sexual reproduction being led by females, It’s still true in modern times, but the Homo species don’t have a Reproductive season, as human females are always fertile all year round.
A Neanderthal in modern clothes would be barely noticed in any modern city today. Which leads me to suggest, that maybe they’re just hiding?
joaoPT–ha, ha. This cracks me up: “Not sure what you mean by cultural definition of humanity.” What kind of engineer are you? Accountant?????
Yes, I see my kitschy nom de flames have been displayed to the blind. I guess we all are ready to accept base line ideas, only when we are ready to do so. The knocking on closed doors will continue as my mission to humanity.
Is/should “human” be defined by scientific determination of “species” or does/should “culture” be included as well? Are liebertards fully human and therefore not quite human even though they are mating with us???
Human:1. A member of the genus Homo and especially of the species H. sapiens.
Your curiousity stops with the genus, mine continues to the “especially.”
Many tribes of Homos call themselves “human” or “people” and all not of the tribe are something other than. Even the “same” tribe members can lose their humanity if they are made “slaves.”
You may say thats not reasonable, scientific, thoughtful, or sensical==but that is our history. Being “sentient” is not enough. That might include neanderthals, apes, dolphins, and trees—or at least “big” trees.
Words. Kinda like music.
“Sexual reproduction being led by females”–it is???? Thank goodness that has been settled.
Neither Engineer nor Accountant.
And I was talking genetically.
My quander about your meaning of culture was just to set the boundary. Were you talking about socio ethics involving Neanderthal in our notion of culture or speaking inside the Sociodynamics in the Species (or Genus as you, very well, put it.).
I’ve seen that your boundaries are broad and wide and put some individuals outside the species while embracing other species as equal by the fact of being sentient.
And yes, if you think that other than by force, physical, economical or psychlogical, men lead the reproductive system, you’re in fairytale land.
Female choose, pick and discard suitable or unsuitable males for reproduction purposes. We’re just pawns playing a role in the reproductive Play. Even when we thinkk we’re in control.
The point here being that genetic traces of Neanderthal DNA and morphological characteristics being present in Modern day mostly non African Humans, suggests interspeciaes miscigination. And what makes it non-scientific news is that in the light of our moral standards this constitutes more or less a Scandal.
Well, I was trying to put in perpective the moral issue, stating that Neanderthals would not be so far away from Sapiens. It’s not like mating with Apes (but that, Sapiens still, to this day do).
#8 The problem with being a bigot is that you need to be informed or you just sound like an ignorant bigot.
They had on average larger brains than we do. That doesn’t prove that they were on average smarter than we are. I wouldn’t care to bet against it though. They were also much stronger and much better athletes than all but a tiny minority of modern humans. A very tiny minority.
Does that mean that modern humans are a bunch of physical and mental degenerates being keep alive by the more viable members of our society? I’m not sure I want to know the answer to that question.
joaoPT–so, you think women control it all heh? Not a mix, a continuum?
but yes, I was thinking that “by force, physical, economical or psychlogical (means), men (do) lead/(participate in) the reproductive system.” Doesn’t make much sense to exclude all the ways we engage and then conclude we don’t engage? Beer goggles aside, I have had women show interest in me that I have turned down. What was that??? A null occurrence?
When you say sapiens still to this day mate with apes==are you saying that is only done thru the wiles/choice of the female apes????
Give your self some credit man! We are not devo.
Fuck yes. I’d hit that.
DE EE VEE OHHH We are DEVO! lol
Ok, we provide the drive they provide the frein.
Happy with that?
Its always a mix of both===just as I first stated at #10.
Such black and white/either,or/polar opposite/monolithic/lack of gradation thinking.
Everything is not gray. Few things are black and white.
“Use the continuum, Luke!”
Despite the debate between Joao and Bobbo, I find if there is a mix, it finally proves they were both human. Or that their offspring were mules.
(Reese’s Homo Cups: You got your neanderthal DNA in my sapiens! No, you got your sapiens DNA in my neanderthal!)
# 5 TruthBeTold – Goes a long way to explaining James Carville
Yes, it does. It just goes to show that, like neanderthals, even Democrats can find a H. Sapiens lover.
#13, “Many tribes of Homos call themselves “human” or “people” ” – why you hatin’ on the homos?
#14, “Female choose, pick and discard suitable or unsuitable males for reproduction purposes. We’re just pawns playing a role in the reproductive Play. Even when we thinkk we’re in control.” I am a female, so I’m getting a kick out of this.
#20, “Or that their offspring were mules.” – I think if the offspring were mules, we wouldn’t find the genes in today’s population. 🙂
It’s great to have some intellectual discourse on a Monday morning. I don’t feel like getting into my work day yet.
It would be entirely natural for H. Sapiens to mate with H. Neanderthalensis We are not so separated physically that we would have been repulsed by the other.
There is about the same degree of difference between a Northern European and an African American. It has recently been established that Polar Bears and Grizzly Bears do occasionally mate and have offspring.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grizzly%E2%80%93polar_bear_hybrid
Blame it on the women who don’t find Robert Pattison sexy.
Nothing to say except,
In your face Bobbo and Marc! hahahah
Oh, Bobbo’s showing off his arguments here. Honestly, you’re going to have discussions on this after our previous discussion where you 100% disagreed? LMAO, what a fcktard. Oh, you can come and “beat” me up anytime at my home….I welcome it 🙂 The smart trying to be stupid as I said.
“These humans, in any case, were not fully modern and they did not expand from Africa, an episode that occurred some 30,000 years later.
The Leipzig group’s interbreeding theory would undercut the present belief that all human populations today draw from the same gene pool that existed a mere 50,000 years ago. “What we falsify here is the strong out-of-Africa hypothesis that everyone comes from the same population,” Dr. Paabo said. “
T-1–other than your animus for me, nothing else you say makes sense. The “fact” we all share a common ancient mother does not preclude the two groups of Homo’s interbred. Reading your posts, its pretty clear we did.
Lynn–who hates homo’s? We are all homo’s==a few of us twice.
#25
Ah, no. Clear and simple.
My detest for you lies in your arrogance, lets be clear about that. A smart person like you doing idiotic antics like your name, other people’s name, and so forth is first and foremost disrespectful when trying to have a decent discussion on issues. There is absolutely no reason for me to treat you otherwise.
Back to the topic, don’t be stupid, we’ve discuss this before. Wiki, 2nd paragraph.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve
“Mitochondrial Eve is generally estimated to have lived around 200,000 years ago,[2] most likely in East Africa,[3] when Homo sapiens sapiens were developing as a species separate from other human species.”
The word NOT from Africa and IN East Africa are very distinct. But in all cases, the more we find bones the better the picture WILL become, hence nothing is set in stone. What is considered “Human” is another topic as it appears you disagree on it as well.
From last Friday, enjoy 🙂
from my bookmark,
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2010/03/24/the-x-womans-fingerbone/
A good read as well,
Here’s an idea- maybe we are erecting false mental barriers between us (homo sapiens) and Neanderthals. We think we are distinct and different from them. But- what if they contributed a subtle but important part of our genes (and physical/mental characteristics?) Thus a theoretical homo sapiens completely free of Neanderthal genes would be fey, less aggressive, fragile, and unable to survive in a modern world. Roll that around in your head for awhile.
Wow… so “Clan of the Cave Bear” *was* a documentary!