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Lou Minatti asked about how non-canadians are handled in Canada.
Well, they are always ‘treated’. I do not think a hospital can turn people away because they are not covered.
I do not have the official answer, but I can say the following.
My wife works with the new immigrant population and a smaller portion of illegals.
There are special billing methods, in this case the clinic has a fund for handling non-covered cases which is covered by the government. Of course, they do not make it “easy” to get. Healthcare is provided regardless. The bills are taken care of through the back channels but ultimately, I would think the government pays for it.
Of course, we don’t have nearly the problems of immigration that the US does. I would think that unless they are paying taxes (toward insurance), then they shouldn’t get covered. Much like the Canadian system.
I have a strong suspicion that 99-100% of this video is nothing but bullshit.
If it was really that bad, where are the high infant mortality rates, lower life-expectancy, and other indicators that Canada is so screwed up?
Oh wait, they don’t have a huge problem. It’s the US with high infant mortality rates, one of the lowest life-expectancies in the industrialized world, and millions of people without insurance.
And people say Michael Moore is bad.
#35: If our military spending was in-line with what it should be post-Cold War, how easy do you suppose it would be to pay for health care, higher education, welfare, Social Security, and so-on?
# 29 MikeR said, True Canuck medical story:
My wife collapsed outside one day – …
From the time we got there until we saw the first doctor was 1.5 hours. When she described what happened, the ER doctor ordered an immediate CT scan.
In America that same uninsured woman would probably have never gotten the CT scan at all.
If we are going to use healthcare anecdotal horror stories to solve the healthcare crisis in America, there will be NO SHORTAGE from the US too.
Here is just one of UNTOLD THOUSANDS just like it in America:
NICK MIGHT need to go to the emergency room this month–again. But if he does, he doesn’t know how he’ll be able to pay for it. At age 25, Nick was diagnosed with neurofibromatosis–a genetic disorder that causes tumors to grow anywhere on or inside his body–in November 2002.
The disorder caused him to miss so many days of work that he lost his job–and his health benefits. But as a single, childless adult, he doesn’t qualify for government assistance under the government’s Medicare or Medicaid program.
According to Families USA–a nonprofit advocacy group that keeps a database of hundreds of health care horror stories like his–Nick tries to work at least one day a week. But he doesn’t know how long he’ll be able to keep it up with his illness.
He’s now $20,000 in debt from multiple trips to the emergency room, and he was forced to change his telephone number–because of the number of debt collectors calling. Yet because he has gone without regular medical care, Nick’s condition is getting worse.
He has lost 50 pounds in the past two months and has blackouts that last for up to six hours at a time. Nick told Families USA that he is “losing hope of getting anything done.”
Nick is just one of the 43.6 million people in the U.S. who live without health insurance, according to the U.S. Census Bureau. Literally thousands more lose their insurance each day, as good-paying jobs with benefits continue to disappear.
Tell me, do ANY of the GOP presidential candidates have a plan that will help a guy like this one?
I say we should get the federal government out of the healthcare system. Let the states take the responsibility. If California wants a Universal Healthcare program, let them do it. If New Hampshire wants a completely private system, let them do it. Power to the tenth Amendment of the Constitution. Of course I realize the how terrible of a transition this would be given the state of our mixed healthcare system, but ideologically it sounds nice doesn’t it?
Well the government’s getting involved in health care has helped drive up the prices, along with lawsuits that lead to extra tests just in case, and new technology.
How disappointing John fell for the insurance lobby propaganda. If you have type 2 or like me type 1 diabetes or any health condition, the free market is not so wonderful. The insurance companies won’t even touch you or make the premiums so high you have to be a lottery winner. Ah, social Darwinism. What a great solution. Kill off the sick. That’ll cut medical costs.
Health insurance is like a bookie – they will only accept bets they believe they will win.
Cheers
I love it. Better than a religious debate….
I’ve received health care in both countries, and they both suck which is why both systems are rated so low in end user satisfaction behind about a dozen to fifteen other countries. However both countries are too stubborn to improve. The reality is Canada spends 1/3 to 1/2 (depends how you calculate it) on health care per capita compared with the US, even with 43 million uninsured people in the US. You get what you pay for, and in Canada there are waiting times especially in Ontario. Like this story shown I see nightmares in both countries.
I’ve seen many American friends having to house and care for a parent here in Canada since they’ve been wiped financially since their spouse contracted cancer and was callous enough to live for 3-4 months. I have one friend who’s father committed suicide rather than leave his mother destitute. I’ve seen people in Canada mistreated or undertreated because of a health care system stretched thinly.
A mixed model will work better although imperfectly. A focus on community based health care is cheaper and more effective in the long run but governments (Canada) and corporations (US) prefer centralized institutions. Most doctors I know would prefer to be salaried and make less money while going back to practicing medicine but both countries make it onerously difficult to practice first line medicine.
The problem will improve when people’s expectations are realistic and start taking care of their own health instead of expecting a government or faceless free market economy system to do it for them. My father-in-law passed away recently here in Canada and received excellent and timely care from the local hospital (smaller center of course) and his family was actively involved. If you’re in a large city in either country and you don’t have family support you’re buggered.
Why does this have to be a Federal issue? Where in the Constitution does it say anything about the *Federal* government having the power to manage health care? Imagine that the EU wanted to force its constituent countries to implement “universal” health care? As #9 said, the best solution is to have the individual States implement some form of universal health care.
I still believe that the best solution it to take corporations out of the equation and force insurers to cater only to individuals instead of corporations.
Whenever universal coverage comes up, I always ask the question about the broken arm. Suppose we have universal coverage and you break your arm. When you go to the hospital you find out that there are two solutions: a super advanced spiffy cast that can heal you in 1 month or a standard split made from plywood from a couple pieces of wood that can heal you in 6 months. Is your universal health care coverage obligated to pay for the 1 month solution?
#18
Said by someone that thinks that supply and demand somehow do not apply to health care. Consider this, if the supply of a commodity or service is restricted and demand does not change, is it not logical to assume that the price will go up?
#45 Ivor Biggun
LOL! Oh yeah?
Have you ever read the Karl Marx Communist Manifesto or are you thinking that this would sound good?
The Karl Marx Communist Manifesto (1848 before Health Insurance) is about class struggle between the BOURGEOIS AND PROLETARIANS.
http://tinyurl.com/48r54
Expanding on your view Ivor Biggun why stop at health care? We ought to have everything in the private sector and a good place to start would be the military and work our way down from there until there is no government run instrumentalities at all so finally there would be no tax! Woo Hoo!~(_8(°)
Cheers
#22. You bring up an excellent point that is rarely mentioned. Not everyone that is qualified to be a doctor is accepted for training in medical school. The number of trained doctors is kept artificially low so that the law of supply and demand will keep their salaries fantastically high.
This is garbage ******** propaganda. South of Canada, there happens to be a huge market (the U.S) where doctors can go to to make more money. That’s why the country has shortages.
In the US, insurance companies are screwing people out of coverage THAT THEY HAVE PAID FOR by hiring high-priced lawyers that figure out how to deny you coverage. And 47 million people today have no coverage at all because they can’t afford it.
The conservative ideology has already caused tremendous damage in this country. Anyone who doesn’t see that is deaf, dumb and blind.
Only a moron would post this garbage video.
And a quick google shows that Stuart Browning is a right-wing loon. Why are you posting this ****?
Here’s the basic tenants that sums up how I feel on this issue.
1: Someone’s finances and expenses should never be an issue when you need medical attention. Medical services should be as swift and thorough as possible.
2: If the government regulates all healthcare, the government should not be filled with idiots and criminals.
3: Get rid of any way corrupt people can pork the system directly from people getting sick to remove the risk (they can make their obscene profits from non-medical related stuff like chairs, tables, bulk lights, tv replacement and repair, basically, take the humans out of the profit equation.
Basically what the concept needs is good math, a way to organize the allocation of funds, locations for new hospitals, maximum use of resources, crowd management, staff management, that sort of thing. Make it as simple to use and navigate as it can possibly get.
Accepted as Fact: The government is not capable of running health care or anything else efficiently and well.
Question: If the government cannot run anything efficiently and well why does it still have the power to do so?
Answer: The population is much worse at electing people who can’t run things efficiently and well and putting them in to positions where they can.
Action plan:
A: Change to a non-election style government
B: Change the population to an active involvement of the government
C: Do nothing and bitch about it on the Internet.
D: Just do nothing.
Choose one 😉 Woo Hoo! ~(_8(°)
Cheers
I lived in Germany and Italy for much of my life. Both countries allow private insurance and private practices. I can only think of a few times I actually paid for health care. I never had to wait more than 1 day for a Doctor’s visit and MRIs and XRays were scheduled within a few days.
In fact, I was diagnosed with a problem with my heart and I was scheduled for surgery 2 days in the future. There was no bill and the doctors saved my life.
Recently I had to have a broken nose fixed and sinuses cleaned out, a result of too many hockey sticks to the face. In Boston I had to wait 4 months and the bill with insurance would have run around $2700 after my insurance paid their part. I had it done in Italy within 2 months and paid nothing.
I have come to the conclusion that the real problem is the control the insurance companys hold on the whole system. They control who you can see and what treatment can be given.
I feel insurance companys should be like the man in the abortion issue. The man pays either for the abortion or 20 plus years of childcare. but neither is his choise to make. This is ultimatly about our bodys just as we are told abortion is ultimatly about control of womens bodys.
#59 ME Self EDIT fist paragraph…Damn its worse than “opps” instead of “Oops!”
Any hold the insurance companies have is from how the health care system is run not the other way around.
Sorry
Cheers
Corps have this 1 major Clause…
PRE-exiting condition…
Then there is..
EXTENUATING circumstances..
THEn there is..
WORK RELATED ONLY..
then comes, ACCIDENT INSURANCE..
Figure that one out AFTEr you read WHAT ISNT COVERED, which is ANYTHING that involves ANY OTHER PERSON, a CAR/truck/bus/plane, or being on someone ELSE’S property.
I’m a 46 yo US citizen whose spent half his life living in Spain. Don’t be fooled by the hype, social medicine IS better, here’s why. Human greed, in the US we call it ambition. Everybody wants more and not everybody can have it. Doctors, Lawyers, Insurance companies, all want more so you get less. My mom’s getting up in years and suffers chronic pain from a crushed cervical disc. Her insurance policy won’t cover it, she can’t afford the treatment, so she get’s to suffer the rest of her life. Here in Bilbao where I live she would get the treatment she needs just for being a taxpayer. And no, it’s not true, there’s no unbelievable wait, and the attention is top notch. I’ve been to hospitals and had surgery in both countries.
I think the problem with a free market health care system is that the market is quite distorted from a normal market. The demand side for the following reasons:
1) You can’t really choose when to have health care – it just happens, and when you are sick you can’t realistically be expected to shop around for a better price.
2) Most of us aren’t able to judge good health care from bad, partly because apart from getting vaccines and giving birth we usually don’t have much relevant collective experience upon which to draw.
3) Most people are willing to pay anything to get better.
The supply side is messed up because of the amount of control wielded by the physicians. Are you really going to avoid heart surgery if you doctor advises it? And when things go wrong (which happens quite a lot) the price can just keep climbing – you often can’t cut your losses halfway through treatment. Patient privacy concerns also distort effective information sharing.
Given these systemic distortions, it’s unlikely that the free market can provide cost-effective health care, and some sort of government interventions can go a long way to ensuring reasonable pricing, while still allowing for freedom to pay for instant excellence and to make profits.
What a crock this example was:
(1) This fringe case needs to be compared to aUS fringe case – No money, no service. Get hospice care and go on a morphine diet.
(2) I have not heard any candidate in the US advocating a single payer health care system. This video is nothing more than a preview of the FEAR the medical lobby will apply in coming months.
#62 amodedoma Exactly!
Think of it this way – with you living outside of the US for so long means you are no longer under the influence of the “poppies” brought forth by the “wicked witch of the west”. 😆
This is what happens to many long term USA expats…funny isn’t it?
Cheers
I don’t think universal health care is going to prevent you to go to the Doctor of your choice.
If you have the money to pay, then go to the doctor that you like. Leave the rest of us to make a choice if we want the Government health care system or not.
Health care is a “right” and should be reasonably priced.
I’m all for everyone having healthcare, even if it has problems….but our government here in the US will never be able to afford or manage it. <-period
There are many more major overhauls we need to make to our system before we attempt to add something this huge.
37:
Harder, because the inefficiencies of any large bureaucracy will soon consume any surplus.
The only thing the government is good at is spending more money than it has and then printing more to make up the difference.
66:
>Leave the rest of us to make a choice if we
>want the Government health care system or not.
You are right! Those of us who opt out of uhc should not have to pay the taxes to support it either. Or are you saying I should pay for YOUR right to uhc? The gov is supposed to PROMOTE the general welfare, NOT PROVIDE it.
Get your hand out of my pocket!
Well we are about to see a lot of this crap as the health care industry, and it is an industry, large, poorly regulated and run for greed, is threatened by Universal Health Care. The problem with Canadian health care is it’s cheap or free so Canadians who are bored instead of sick tie up their doctors with bullshit that could be handled with a trip to the drug store for a few contacts.
Seems to me if too much government is bad, too little should be equally bad. The idea that healthcare should only be available to those who can afford it, makes me sad. Yeah I know it’s darwin’s law of the fittest – if you’re not fit you have no place in exsistence. It’s the law of the jungle, and if that’s the case why have government at all. Laws are the tangible expression of a society’s values and none are perfect to be sure but let’s just hope we’re defending something worth being proud of.
The video is fatuous, self-serving propaganda which excerpts one deeply serious healthy problem experienced by a Canadian family. There’s no back story, no research – just alarmist hyperbole designed to dupe Americans into believing that everyone in Canada is suffering. Nothing could be further from the truth. As usual, U.S.-produced propaganda equals anything ever promoted by the old communist regimes. Hey America! Your children are suffering by the millions in communities across the country for lack of private insurance and universal health care. You’ve co-opted the physical health of the nation in favor of profit and expediency. Your leaders have failed you miserably. There’s no four month wait or eight month wait for comprehensive health care services for any of those American children. No sir! For them it’s a lifelong wait. Canada has its problems. Its health care system goes through ups & downs and develops problems which must at all costs be fixed, but the Canadian system is designed to accommodate the needs of every single citizen (and quite a few non-citizens). The Canadian health care system is by every internationally recognized standard clearly more comprehensive and more effective than the horrific nonsense and usurious idiocy promoted as health care in the United States.